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The Goon Thread

Adebayor. Proven in this league and this team. Not as much a goalscorer as Falcao (who is exceptional, Adebayor certainly isnt bad though) but has a better all round game which I believe improves the team as a whole a great deal.
 
Piers-Morgan-RVP.png
 
More digs, ha

As for 'comprimising the team shape' - we have none at the moment as far as I'm concerned, at least no more than a few experimental nothing games with Bale as striker, etc.. We are building a side for the new season with AVB (hopefully!) busy trying to fill the missing pieces of a formation you have presumed would work best with Adebayor because he was here last season - i.e. gives you a frame of reference hence the inclination. Falcao is twice the player, imv but that's another argument all together - as for 'proven' in the PL - quite possibly, the single most over-used cliche these days and one 'proven' wrong by good players countless of times. If you have it - it shows, that simple for me.

Imho Hernadez could work as well in AVB's system with ease and although a slightly different player to Adebayor, a one who's equally abled and potentially even superior in certain aspects. Arguably the better finisher, etc.

As for being 'picky' - well, this is roughly the 9th transfer window running since we have failed to replace our most complete forward in roghly a decade, so for whatever reasons (finances, pull, wages, market, CL, agents, you name it, etc.) - I think we have long forfeited the privilege of being picky and should consider all striker who are better than what we have and would improve the team quality overall.
 
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Piers Morgan: But he turned out to be just another mercenary, heartless, selfish little brick.

Don't be so hard on yourself.
 
IN THE NEW FourFourTwo

André Santos: "We shouldn't aim to get closer to Emirates Marketing Project and United; we have to leave them behind"
 
Its not a dig, its an observation. You are a Utd disciple, always have been - with a history of looking favorably on just about everything they do/have/are.

Falcao is an entirely different type of player. My personal preference is Adebayor within the context of our side.

"Proven in this league" is indeed a cliche but that by no means makes it meaningless. As there are many players to have come over and done brilliantly, there are many who havent. Sometimes inexplicably - look at Schevchenko, regarded as among the best strikers in the world - moves to the champions - flops dramatically.

Sometimes it just doesnt work out, and there is certainly no doubting his quality - so its not necessarily just a matter of that.

The fact that Adebayor is proven to work as a lone man at various clubs in this league is worth consideration, at a time where we need to have a good start to the season to ease the pressure on the new manager and club in general. Its no the time to be taking too many chances.

Once again, and for the avoidance of doubt, I agree (for a 3rd time) that Hernandez could well work in the system - it is simply that my belief is it would cost us the all round game of Adebayor (or alike) and so compromise the way we can play. Ditto Falcao. If the front man is 99% finisher and not a great deal else then the team set up needs to be significantly different (even if within the constraints of the same system) to operate effectively compared to having a real fulcrum up front.

As for fretting about windows since Berbatov left, we have signed numerous forwards in attempts to replace him - its not like we have sat idle. We have managed to finish 4th twice and push on to a CL QF. While I readily admit a forward if his quality would improve the side significantly its hard to argue we havent moved on in his absence. We most certainly not at the desperate stage of taking any striker that is available
 
I'm not going to respond to the first allegation as much as the intention appears to be a 'reactonist' one, other than state - it is categorically untrue.

We signed Pav at the time who was nowhere near the required quality and never (imv) excelled beyond that. We also signed Crouch, who was presumably meant to offer a tactical vartiation upfront. Re-signing Keane and Defoe doesn't count for me, they were both here with Berbatov at the time. Loaning Ade is the first time we've added a quality unit upfront in nearly 5 years.

So - we've signed 2 inferior forwards (who were subsequently sold) and loaned one good striker in that time (who has subsequently appeared reluctant to take a pay-cut - understandbly). I think it's fair to draw a conclsuion here suggesting we are unable to attract quality players with ease - do you really think we should be picky about which strikers we sign when in nearly 5 years we haven't brought anyone of real quality? Personally, I'd be happy with anyone who improves the team and look for ways to integrate him as opposed to starting the season with Deofe and wondering what could have been. VdV is the prime example of that - to this day many believe our 4-4-2 at the time was a sueprior solution whereas now we are 'forced' to utilise a deep forward/ACM. Ade is not even guaranteed at this point which is the most frightening part of all.
 
I may have missed the discussion, but how would rvp fit into the yanited side ? As the most forward striker, wooney playing in the hole/just behind ? As good as rvp is, he does tend to miss quite a few too ... Ex arse players all going to manchester, becoming a feeder club and themselves not win anything, sounds familiar.

We already have dos santos, why take a punt on another mexican ??
 
indospurs said:
I may have missed the discussion, but how would rvp fit into the yanited side ? As the most forward striker, wooney playing in the hole/just behind ? As good as rvp is, he does tend to miss quite a few too ... Ex arse players all going to manchester, becoming a feeder club and themselves not win anything, sounds familiar.

We already have dos santos, why take a punt on another mexican ??
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ferguson will find a way to play to rvp's strength that's for sure.
what's not so sure is if RVP will remain fit for the remaining of his tenure there. he could end up berbs mk II for them.
 
ArcspacE said:
I'm not going to respond to the first allegation as much as the intention appears to be a 'reactonist' one, other than state - it is categorically untrue.

We signed Pav at the time who was nowhere near the required quality and never (imv) excelled beyond that. We also signed Crouch, who was presumably meant to offer a tactical vartiation upfront. Re-signing Keane and Defoe doesn't count for me, they were both here with Berbatov at the time. Loaning Ade is the first time we've added a quality unit upfront in nearly 5 years.

So - we've signed 2 inferior forwards (who were subsequently sold) and loaned one good striker in that time (who has subsequently appeared reluctant to take a pay-cut - understandbly). I think it's fair to draw a conclsuion here suggesting we are unable to attract quality players with ease - do you really think we should be picky about which strikers we sign when in nearly 5 years we haven't brought anyone of real quality? Personally, I'd be happy with anyone who improves the team and look for ways to integrate him as opposed to starting the season with Deofe and wondering what could have been. VdV is the prime example of that - to this day many believe our 4-4-2 at the time was a sueprior solution whereas now we are 'forced' to utilise a deep forward/ACM. Ade is not even guaranteed at this point which is the most frightening part of all.
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Your biased ramblings makes for depressing reading, but not because they're true. You'd think we deliberately avoid signing players that meet your criteria of quality just so we can bring in these inferior players, that incidentally helped this club achieve things we haven't come close to for 20 years. Quality like Andy Carroll or Theo Walnut. Then you go on to say we should now bring in an inferior player just for the sake of it. No doubt you'd be extremely supportive of him, whoever he was. Do you ever make any postive posts about this club that you're a fan of or is that reserved for other clubs and their players?
 
Jordinho said:
Your biased ramblings makes for depressing reading, but not because they're true. You'd think we deliberately avoid signing players that meet your criteria of quality just so we can bring in these inferior players, that incidentally helped this club achieve things we haven't come close to for 20 years. Quality like Andy Carroll or Theo Walnut. Then you go on to say we should now bring in an inferior player just for the sake of it. No doubt you'd be extremely supportive of him, whoever he was. Do you ever make any postive posts about this club that you're a fan of or is that reserved for other clubs and their players?
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I can only presume you're responding to a different post of mine as the above is not related to what I posted. Where did I say we should bring an inferior player?

What we achieved is an entirely spearate point to the fact we have struggled to address our striker situation in numerous windows (for whatever reason you choose to believe, etc.) - so if a good forward (i.e. one who would improve our team) became available we should be jumping for him and not being too picky due to this very fact. - which is the point I tried to bring across in my previous response to nayim.
 
indospurs said:
I may have missed the discussion, but how would rvp fit into the yanited side ? As the most forward striker, wooney playing in the hole/just behind ? As good as rvp is, he does tend to miss quite a few too ... Ex arse players all going to manchester, becoming a feeder club and themselves not win anything, sounds familiar.

We already have dos santos, why take a punt on another mexican ??
Click to expand...

I imagine similar to how they worked Tevez/Rooney/Ronaldo - EXTREME flexibility
 
ArcspacE said:
I'm not going to respond to the first allegation as much as the intention appears to be a 'reactonist' one, other than state - it is categorically untrue.

We signed Pav at the time who was nowhere near the required quality and never (imv) excelled beyond that. We also signed Crouch, who was presumably meant to offer a tactical vartiation upfront. Re-signing Keane and Defoe doesn't count for me, they were both here with Berbatov at the time. Loaning Ade is the first time we've added a quality unit upfront in nearly 5 years.

So - we've signed 2 inferior forwards (who were subsequently sold) and loaned one good striker in that time (who has subsequently appeared reluctant to take a pay-cut - understandbly). I think it's fair to draw a conclsuion here suggesting we are unable to attract quality players with ease - do you really think we should be picky about which strikers we sign when in nearly 5 years we haven't brought anyone of real quality? Personally, I'd be happy with anyone who improves the team and look for ways to integrate him as opposed to starting the season with Deofe and wondering what could have been. VdV is the prime example of that - to this day many believe our 4-4-2 at the time was a sueprior solution whereas now we are 'forced' to utilise a deep forward/ACM. Ade is not even guaranteed at this point which is the most frightening part of all.
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It was not an allegation, and not searching for a reaction. It was an observation, one I honestly believe to be true based upon years of seeing you post. Take it or leave it, I couldnt care less.

I am saying, until we are desperate - in dire straits, we should indeed be picky. We should be looking for precisely what we need, which is a little different to "something, anything, that is perceived as better".

When we are desperate? Then yes, you have a point. With two weeks of the window left however desperate isnt the case.

Despite your wanting to harp on about 5 years of not buying quality. This window is what is relevant, and right now we arent so desperate as to buy for the sake of it.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
It was not an allegation, and not searching for a reaction. It was an observation, one I honestly believe to be true based upon years of seeing you post. Take it or leave it, I couldnt care less.

I am saying, until we are desperate - in dire straits, we should indeed be picky. We should be looking for precisely what we need, which is a little different to "something, anything, that is perceived as better".

When we are desperate? Then yes, you have a point. With two weeks of the window left however desperate isnt the case.

Despite your wanting to harp on about 5 years of not buying quality. This window is what is relevant, and right now we arent so desperate as to buy for the sake of it.
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I fully agree with the strategy of choosing the right players for the right system as a generic transfer attitude. But I also think that if a 'good' deal is available our manager shouldn't overlook that and prehaps re-consider/re-adjust his strategy and potentially look to integrate that player (Fergie and RVP? as an extremist example). I can only assume there are that many quality forwards out there who are affordable and willing to join us. If we narrow it down to the perfect target man, the list shrinks even more. Perhaps window after window of 'frustration' has taken away most of my optimism, and for that I hold my hand up.

We are most likely starting our season with one senior striker, I'd say we're pretty much against the ropes.

I still hold faith in someone's post earlier (can't remember who) suggesting we leave deals late into August to save on paying extra wages during what is essentially pre-season - meaning we are hopefully going to see frantic activity from Monday onwards. Here's hoping.
 
To adjust our plans said player has to be something special, something to make it worth it. That is not Hernandez, not by a long shot, IMO.

With Adebayor on the cards, Bilbao looking for bids on Llorente and lord knows what other possibilities for the next couple of weeks now is not the time to panic.
 
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