Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Yes, sorry, you are right.
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The all new Striker thread..
- Thread starter Richie
- Start date
Yes, sorry, you are right.
We are Tottenham
Kasey Keller
Exactly this..........
our transfers in the windows have been poor
that's the main gripe for a lot of fans,,that we could have bought class instead of tried mediocre,,
If we lose either Bale or Modric it will be down to this as much as anything else!
We must not lose either of these two players .......whatever if we are going to push on next season.....
NaijaSpurs
Les Ferdinand
Saha is on Talksport right now
Enter the Pitbull
Luke Young
"Patinkle Cisse is a dangerman right now..."
What great insight from Saha there lol
What great insight from Saha there lol
NaijaSpurs
Les Ferdinand
He was a bit to positive in answer to whether or not Chelsea can win the CL
yiddo2786
Steed Malbranque
Absolutely. Same with Jelavic and Pogrebnyak. Remember how Ba was 'without doubt' the signing of the season 5 months ago? Doesn't score in a while and now he's brick all of a sudden.
I brought this point up few pages back and was nearly stoned to death. I hope you can run fast
Wasn't Ba the signing of the season few weeks ago?
NaijaSpurs
Les Ferdinand
I brought this point up few pages back and was nearly stoned to death. I hope you can run fast
Wasn't Ba the signing of the season few weeks ago?
I love how ignore the fact that Ba has now been playing on the wing for the post few months
He's played in half the games as part of a front 3 - NOT a winger. Surely if he was as brick hot as he was touted to be few months ago he could at the very least notch 2-3 goals from there? Rest of the games was a pure 4-4-2
The point is about media perception anyway, and how quickly flavour of the month is altered to suit the headlines
The point is about media perception anyway, and how quickly flavour of the month is altered to suit the headlines
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Enter the Pitbull
Luke Young
I just saw the ESPN writers poll and they voted Cisse and Ba 1 and 2 in the signing of the season category... hardly a bad thing to replace one signing of the season with another.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Arcspace and others now dismissing Ba, how many Saudi Sportswashing Machine games have you seen since they signed Cisse and they both returned from the ANC? I only ask because I've probably seen 3-4 games and I thought Ba was very good in all those games (he played in a wide position in all of them if my memory serves me). He's actually impressed me even more since they signed Cisse because he's showed that he's capable of playing multiple roles very well, he can play as an out and out striker to get goals, but he can play in a more creative/supporting role as well. Quite rare to have that combination in a player who is also big, strong and fairly quick.
"...he could at the very least notch 2-3 goals from there?" Is to me a strange question. All players have scoring runs and runs without scoring. We've seen it from Bale, Ade and VdV this season, Defoe last season, Rooney not many seasons ago, even van Persie didn't score for 5-6 games in a row apart from a penalty.
I do agree that there is a media hype and hype from fans around players that haven't been performing for long, similarly players that are just having a bad run or haven't yet had the chance to prove themselves get slated very quickly. You have to actually watch a player, see how he plays and comment based on that. I think it's right to reserve some judgment on Cisse until he's been in England for a bit longer, but so far he's looking very good and while some of his goals are a bit fluky and won't be goals he'll score all the time he's also shown a lot of qualities, as has Ba.
"...he could at the very least notch 2-3 goals from there?" Is to me a strange question. All players have scoring runs and runs without scoring. We've seen it from Bale, Ade and VdV this season, Defoe last season, Rooney not many seasons ago, even van Persie didn't score for 5-6 games in a row apart from a penalty.
I do agree that there is a media hype and hype from fans around players that haven't been performing for long, similarly players that are just having a bad run or haven't yet had the chance to prove themselves get slated very quickly. You have to actually watch a player, see how he plays and comment based on that. I think it's right to reserve some judgment on Cisse until he's been in England for a bit longer, but so far he's looking very good and while some of his goals are a bit fluky and won't be goals he'll score all the time he's also shown a lot of qualities, as has Ba.
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
of course our loan was late, it was a deal with an at the time direct competitor who doesnt need the money, for one of their strikers that was on some seriously big wages. we dont pay big wages to add to that and we didnt want to buy him out right
but of course , none of that matters to you..what matters to you is that we were late in getting the best option on the market that we could feasibly even dream of getting at the time.
i guess you're master negotiator didnt come through for you?8)
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I think people need to realise we are in a different position to Saudi Sportswashing Machine, and that's why their signings can be more unproven and then look like great value. They are essentially rebuilding a squad that got promoted 2 seasons ago, and need to replace a whole host of guys.
They are looking at Cisse to be their first choice striker because their current options to partner Demba Ba were Leon Best and Shola Ameobi. They can then bring someone in who represents somewhat of a risk and that would in all likelihood still represent an upgrade. Same with Cabaye, or Tiote. They are replacing the likes of Nolan, Barton and Alan Smith. They can be unproven risks and still be upgrades, because Saudi Sportswashing Machine are coming from a lower level than us. These signings have been great and I'd never take anything away from them, but the challenge for Saudi Sportswashing Machine will be when they are established in the top 6/8, and need to find that extra bit of quality to fill out the squad with so they can progress to be established in the top 4. That's the challenge we face now, and it's more difficult. It's why our targets are different.
We aren't coming from a position of being promoted and then rebuilding the squad. We are in the position of challenging for the top 4 for 3 consecutive seasons. Sometimes we make it and sometimes we don't, but we are in and around that area. The type of signings we need to make need to be more proven, because we already have a good squad, and the marginal improvement that these riskier signings from inferior leagues represent isn't enough to take the risk. Cisse could have come here, and we could have spent 9 million on someone that in all likelihood may not have started many games ahead of Ade and VDV. We could have signed Jelavic, but he also may not have been first choice here where as he goes to Everton in a Euro year and becomes the main man. I'm not saying Cisse and Jelavic aren't great signings, but in terms of what we need, if we are taking risks on players they need to be definite upgrades on what we already have, and we also need to show these players that they will get game time.
That's why we got Saha, because if we can't find someone we can afford who is a definite improvement on Ade/VDV/Defoe then we still need to have some good back up options so we aren't short. In FM, you may be able to sign someone like Cisse for 9 million and have him be back up even if you aren't sure. In real life it won't work like that. Things go in cycles, I'd bet it's why some people in the game advocate needing to take a team that struggles in the league year in year out down, so they can rebuild back up. Saudi Sportswashing Machine went down, rebuilt, and it allowed them to get in a good cycle, bringing in quality and providing a good platform for unproven players to come and prove their worth. The next challenge for Saudi Sportswashing Machine's scouting team will be whether they can continue to find the value which makes Saudi Sportswashing Machine consistent top 4 challengers. Because that's where we are. If they can maintain this success year in year out, and find players to improve their squad and their first team ahead of us, then they'd absolutely deserve to be ahead of us because we wouldn't have been doing as good a job. It's easy enough to say to guys like Cabaye and Cisse to go and join them, because the team will be built around them and they will be playing every week. I'll be very surprised if they get the 'next' Cisse or Cabaye though because that means the 'next' versions will have to be much better than the players they already have, or be willing to join Saudi Sportswashing Machine as squad players. Which probably won't happen. They'll probably join the next club on an upward part of their cycle, that's rebuilding or constantly refreshing their team because they lose players to the bigger sides. Maybe Fulham will find the bargains next season.
And the same thing works in the level we are at and the level above us too. We signed Carrick and 2 years later Man United take him off our hands for much more money. We sign Berbatov and 2 years later same thing happens. But that's because we were in the position where we desperately needed central midfielders and could take a chance on one that had just been relegated and hadn't been reaching top form. United are challenging at the top table at home and in Europe and therefore buying him from West Ham was never going to happen. They needed someone proven, and they got him 2 years later.
They are looking at Cisse to be their first choice striker because their current options to partner Demba Ba were Leon Best and Shola Ameobi. They can then bring someone in who represents somewhat of a risk and that would in all likelihood still represent an upgrade. Same with Cabaye, or Tiote. They are replacing the likes of Nolan, Barton and Alan Smith. They can be unproven risks and still be upgrades, because Saudi Sportswashing Machine are coming from a lower level than us. These signings have been great and I'd never take anything away from them, but the challenge for Saudi Sportswashing Machine will be when they are established in the top 6/8, and need to find that extra bit of quality to fill out the squad with so they can progress to be established in the top 4. That's the challenge we face now, and it's more difficult. It's why our targets are different.
We aren't coming from a position of being promoted and then rebuilding the squad. We are in the position of challenging for the top 4 for 3 consecutive seasons. Sometimes we make it and sometimes we don't, but we are in and around that area. The type of signings we need to make need to be more proven, because we already have a good squad, and the marginal improvement that these riskier signings from inferior leagues represent isn't enough to take the risk. Cisse could have come here, and we could have spent 9 million on someone that in all likelihood may not have started many games ahead of Ade and VDV. We could have signed Jelavic, but he also may not have been first choice here where as he goes to Everton in a Euro year and becomes the main man. I'm not saying Cisse and Jelavic aren't great signings, but in terms of what we need, if we are taking risks on players they need to be definite upgrades on what we already have, and we also need to show these players that they will get game time.
That's why we got Saha, because if we can't find someone we can afford who is a definite improvement on Ade/VDV/Defoe then we still need to have some good back up options so we aren't short. In FM, you may be able to sign someone like Cisse for 9 million and have him be back up even if you aren't sure. In real life it won't work like that. Things go in cycles, I'd bet it's why some people in the game advocate needing to take a team that struggles in the league year in year out down, so they can rebuild back up. Saudi Sportswashing Machine went down, rebuilt, and it allowed them to get in a good cycle, bringing in quality and providing a good platform for unproven players to come and prove their worth. The next challenge for Saudi Sportswashing Machine's scouting team will be whether they can continue to find the value which makes Saudi Sportswashing Machine consistent top 4 challengers. Because that's where we are. If they can maintain this success year in year out, and find players to improve their squad and their first team ahead of us, then they'd absolutely deserve to be ahead of us because we wouldn't have been doing as good a job. It's easy enough to say to guys like Cabaye and Cisse to go and join them, because the team will be built around them and they will be playing every week. I'll be very surprised if they get the 'next' Cisse or Cabaye though because that means the 'next' versions will have to be much better than the players they already have, or be willing to join Saudi Sportswashing Machine as squad players. Which probably won't happen. They'll probably join the next club on an upward part of their cycle, that's rebuilding or constantly refreshing their team because they lose players to the bigger sides. Maybe Fulham will find the bargains next season.
And the same thing works in the level we are at and the level above us too. We signed Carrick and 2 years later Man United take him off our hands for much more money. We sign Berbatov and 2 years later same thing happens. But that's because we were in the position where we desperately needed central midfielders and could take a chance on one that had just been relegated and hadn't been reaching top form. United are challenging at the top table at home and in Europe and therefore buying him from West Ham was never going to happen. They needed someone proven, and they got him 2 years later.
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
Interesting about the number of scouting trips you intend to make (MID SEASON) while you're competing on all fronts..League, FA cup, CL, and premiership as a first team manager coach. I dont tjink redknapp has hat amount of time on his hands and when he does go i would have thought it 2would be to see the final shortlist of 1 or 2 players at the top of the list.
yes i am sure that the loan of ade was a problem for you, gawd darn it if only you were that vocal about your displeasure of our temporary purchase of Ade when we were flying.....maybe next time eh? you can communicate more when we are flying high a bout how much you dont like a contributor as opposed to only come out of the shade when things arent going so well. woujld carry more weight. the loan of ade wasnt enough? we had ade, defoe and pav...THREE internationals in our team...whats the problem again? (not taking hindsight into account)
there can never be 100% guarantee, true.......which is why i said minimise or cut the risk....not eliminate it completely cause thats impossible . there are more foreign players in the league than english, i dont have time to spell out what would turn out to be 10 volumes (500 pages each) of why that is the case..needless to say, if you can find a british / english coach and / or youth fooballers ..they wil tell you why that is. but i will say this , then you have to look at the risk factors vs expenses / cost at different tiers of the league...you have the top performing teams, top earners and biggest exposed teams , you have like at least 3 other sub catergory teams factored around their finances and fan base.....the higher you get up the chain the lower the risk is taken on purchases. Its a common practice...... why should a club that has high potential for gains and ALOT to lose go out there and risk a significant amount of money on players with higher risk to return ratios than players that are conditioned to suceed here?
how do you even know we arent scouting anyway? and how do you know that saha isnt just a victim of a team in bad form? you kept quiet when he played well against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, but yet you want to include him as not good enough during a period where EVERYONE was playing below their level.
you remind me of jurgen the german, just the other day he was advocating selling modric and saying if anyone was foolish enough to pay 40 million for bale we should take it. Naturally that comment came neck deep in our bad run of form / confidence / results........by GHod's grace if we make third i want to hear him say that again and mean it. I can just picyture it now "yep we got third, now sell our two best players and lets kick on from there". you're sticking saha into a pot that was bad and complaining when he doesnt come out smelling well...what on earth is that about?
and further more what on earth do you expect from a third choice striker that is satisfied with his role ? knowing he wont start but he wants to come on and do his best and make an impact. A THIRD STRIKER!!!
actually i might be going about this all wrong....YOU tell me what squad player we should have bought that would come to us and be happy with playing on the bench...in january..or better yet, you could tell me which striker we could have got that would have replaced ade straighht off the bat....in jaunary.
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
this.
people are prety ignorant. if anthing this is show casing ba's skillset...being a wide provider, making up numbers in the box as opposed to a one track bully one dimensional striker
tynesidespur
Terry Yorath
@BrainofLevy - Good post.
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
I'm going to stat calling you BrainOfMan!!!!
great post
they do have one true point though, since berbatov left we have not managed to identify and purchase permanently ONE good striker, despite being CL hopeful contenders.
you have to look at other teams and what they are prepared to do in order to secure that position. even liverpool (though they fudged up) paid what was necessary to secure the guy that they thought would be englands future number 9. for a while united wont need to do that cause of rooney, chelsea did the same in torres but stil had drogab and anelka to hope for a come back...which drogba is dong now that avb is gone, arsenal have Van persie, Emirates Marketing Project are stockpilling, et etc etc
we should have been able to permanently secure the services of at least ONE guy in the last 4 years