Summer transfer thread, AvB window wrap up pg 1527

[Hotspur]

The original JJetset ‏@jetsetyid
Groundhog day 4-6 anyone? Quiet week ahead

 

[Mumorn]

Where are Niang and MVila mate? You said they were signed.

Just like Akqayid said that Adebayor and Lloris were signed.

Where are all these "signed" players, in our new sauna complex getting ready for Saturday?

I said we'd sign them didn't I? Did I actually mention Niang?

 

[Mumorn]

Also rvp would sign for united today or tomorrow.


Tick...tock....

Tomorrow then obviously.

 

[Southcote Spur]

And as I have posted elsewhere it is my feeling that the stadium and training ground are likely draining resources. If so then I accept that considering their importance to the club (even if a balance has to be struck). But I was responding in relation to the point that Levy has assured fans that resources would not be greatly affected by these projects, based on the last 3 windows I am unconvinced by that. Finally, shouting does nothing for anyone.

I think Levy is stuck between the proverbial rock and a number of hard places.

We need the increased revenues that a new larger stadium will bring. This will enable us to bring a better calibre of player into the club, in the hope that it enables us to qualify for the CL on a more regular basis. This also helps us accelerate and reduce the payback period for any of the “capital projects” we are current involved in.

You can imagine the check list that Levy has in his boardroom:

1. World class training venue - check!
2. New world class stadium - almost?
3. Champions League quality playing staff and coaches - a long way off?

All of the above costs money, and if Levy is stating that "resources would not be greatly affected by these projects" then I'd love to know how it is being funded and where indeed the money has gone to improve the current team?

The worse case scenario has to be that we invest heavily in the playing staff, which is a huge gamble and runs up shed load of debt, which could put us foul of the FFP rules. Imagine then we don't qualify for the CL and we lose out on the revenue streams that enable us to quickly pay off the debts incurred by the new training facilities and the stadium.

I still like to think that Levy does know want he is doing, but we need to get our season up and running from the first game, not after the second (like last year), or indeed after the eighth (like a few years ago), which is why I raise my concerns that any new recruit to the team will not have the time to bed in from the start of this coming season.

 

[Lily White]

I agree. The Sig one is interesting in that it was a surprising target, but surely it didn't cost any more than what we have brought in from likes of Pav, Kranky and other sales? We must have funds there, no way would AVB have taken the job without guarantees but then he may have underestimated how Levy deals. That said the market is problematic, and our market status and clout is less than we might think. Just shocked we are in this position, relying on a striker who even Harry was no longer convinced by is deeply concerning. As for your final point I agree, but then Levy has a reputation for being extremely tough so can't be surprised if others behave likewise.

Perhaps Levy shook on one of his 'gentlemens agreements'. Luka should have warned AVB

 

[NaijaSpurs]

The market as a whole has been stagnant since the banking crisis and the only clubs which have been spending are those with sugar daddies.

You mean like Arsenal?

 

[parklane1]

The original JJetset ‏@jetsetyid
Groundhog day 4-6 anyone? Quiet week ahead

That bloke is a dingdonghead.

 

[DHSF]

DSF -

Levy's always confidently stated that the stadium build would never affect the transfer policy, true. However, much of that was said before the effects of the financial crisis became fully apparent. Cheap credit dried up, and is presumably still much harder to find than in the pre-2008 era. That presumably has had an effect on our ability to spend on the team. Ditto the money spent on the Stratford affair, which in all likelihood did come out of the club coffers, due to the suddenness of the whole affair and the need to move quickly. Ditto the increased wage budget, which remains at a CL level despite our last involvement in the competition coming a season and a bit ago. Ditto the new training ground, which has probably swallowed up much of the money received from the increased commercial deals we've signed over the last few years. All these things have impacted on our ability to spend.

Finally, there are very few players who can make a difference to the side at this point in time. It's no use going for the likes of Fletcher or Pogrebynak- they wouldn't elevate us to the level we want to be at. We're currently on the rung directly below the big boys - above the majority of our rivals but below the real giants of Europe. To get us up to their level, we need

a)Champions League footie, and

b)world-class players/coaching staff.

Now, we reach the crux of the problem - world class players will only come to us when we secure Champions League footie. However, with the massively competitive nature of the PL these days, we need a world-class player or two just to qualify for the aforementioned competition. So, we need players who will only come to us if we qualify for the CL, but we need those same players to help us qualify for the CL. It's a difficult situation to be in, but it's one we now find ourselves stuck in.

There is a way out of it, which is signing young, talented players who have slipped under the radar somewhat. Sandro was, and remains, a prime example of this type of signing. However, I very much doubt Redknapp even considered players from outside the PL and England, unless they were either very, very good (And thus well-known) or proven over the years (and thus on high wages). Thus, we find ourselves with no real targets to pursue other than the ones that, as mentioned before, are very unlikely to consider dropping to our level when they can simply wait for the bigger boys to come and pick them up. It's intensely frustrating.

AVB will change that, I'm sure of it. His scouting system will likely encompass a broader range of players, and we will eventually start picking up those raw diamonds, the ones that can make a difference to our team without being too expensive.
However ,for the moment, we're playing a really, really difficult game, and hence I'm not surprised we're not making much progress. I'm frustrated and angry, of course, but not surprised.

I look at the likes of Paulo Dybala('the new Sergio Aguero'), picked up by Palermo for a relatively minor fee, and I wonder why we aren't in for these players. Then I remember that the system we had in place for years has only just come to an end, and it'll take time for a more extensive, deliberative scouting system to be set up. IN the meantime, hope and pray, that's all we can do.

Half decent post haha I of course see the bigger picture I really do and take things on board I just dont buy the whole players dont want to come. Im sure they do if we constantly target the stadium and forget the present then what is concerning is we will be left with a magnificent stadium but brick team on it which obviously impacts negatively on filling it. There is a balancing act and none of us are saying that we should go all out spending 100m but at the same time dont forget the present because if we are forgetting the present then why should I be spending £900 plus food and drink every season?

I am happy with the whole scouting aspect hence the DoF being brought in BUT that takes such a long period of time to implement that to reap the rewards you are talking three to five years to coincide with the new stadium maybe.

There is and was a lot of doubt about Harry but I think it takes two to tango and the common denominator appears to be Levy - I may be too quick to judge because its too early to say how he will work with AVB. I do only want players who will make a difference but lets be honest we dont really have much up front that even I can make a difference.

On a final point I think we are all frustrated and like you not surprised but maybe thats the frustrating thing its the lack of surprise. I think some of us me included thought we would go into this window all set up to bring in a new Manager and bring in four or five players from the wages savings and player sales - that hasnt obviously happened unfortunately. Modric like I say has no bearing on anything and his sale proceeds will just mean that we can bring a replacement.

 

[kanoute16]

Akqayidand JJetsetwilly r whatever have let their "ITK fame" go to their heads.
They just contradict themselves all the time.

I'm amazed that a high profile club in the prem that is on the cusp of something promising are going to start the season so ill prepared as we are, even Benny has mentioned the striker situation on teletext ffs

 

[marcospur2]

I think Levy is stuck between the proverbial rock and a number of hard places.

We need the increased revenues that a new larger stadium will bring. This will enable us to bring a better calibre of player into the club, in the hope that it enables us to qualify for the CL on a more regular basis. This also helps us accelerate and reduce the payback period for any of the “capital projects” we are current involved in.

You can imagine the check list that Levy has in his boardroom:

1. World class training venue - check!
2. New world class stadium - almost?
3. Champions League quality playing staff and coaches - a long way off?

All of the above costs money, and if Levy is stating that "resources would not be greatly affected by these projects" then I'd love to know how it is being funded and where indeed the money has gone to improve the current team?

The worse case scenario has to be that we invest heavily in the playing staff, which is a huge gamble and runs up shed load of debt, which could put us foul of the FFP rules. Imagine then we don't qualify for the CL and we lose out on the revenue streams that enable us to quickly pay off the debts incurred by the new training facilities and the stadium.

I still like to think that Levy does know want he is doing, but we need to get our season up and running from the first game, not after the second (like last year), or indeed after the eighth (like a few years ago), which is why I raise my concerns that any new recruit to the team will not have the time to bed in from the start of this coming season.

I agree, it is a very difficult balance and the wider context is a transfer market affected by the financial crisis, the olympics and by obscene sugar daddy spending. But I can see why many fans cannot understand the missed opportunities to strengthen when we had the chance to push forward. Indeed it wasn't that long ago that the apparent reasoning for AVB was to take the club in a new direction, maybe we were wrong to interpret that Levy would release significant resources (including those which have surely been accrued from player sales in recent times) to back a manager widely slated last season but who obviously impressed him in some way. AVB needed the support and needed to be in a stronger position than this one. Of course there are obstacles which I have mentioned that are mitigating factors, but surely no one expected we would be in this scenario so close to the season start again.

 

[kanoute16]

My frustration is that we have brought in a manager that needs the right tools in order to suceed from the very first whistle, yet we have not provided them.
The last thing we need is a bad start, the press getting on AVB's back and for him to lose the dressing room in the way he did at chelsea.

I fear that Levy's transfer policy is now starting to look like the biggest obstacle to where we want Spurs to be.

 

[metalgear]

We must be the only club with a pre-season without an established striker.

 

[marcospur2]

My frustration is that we have brought in a manager that needs the right tools in order to suceed from the very first whistle, yet we have not provided them.
The last thing we need is a bad start, the press getting on AVB's back and for him to lose the dressing room in the way he did at chelsea.

I fear that Levy's transfer policy is now starting to look like the biggest obstacle to where we want Spurs to be.

Without doubt this is my biggest fear. I like AVB's ideas but they are risky without the right personnel. The high-line looks incredible open, but part of the problem with that is to work you need certain types of players in key positions. I am sure AVB expected greater progress this window, and is probably slightly bewildered at where we are. Certainly the Levy doesnt trust Harry arguments seems much weaker than it did in previous windows to explain our poor stop-gap purchases.

 

[kanoute16]

I agree with you regrding Harry argument. It was also an excuse that was used when Comolli was here too.
No, the fact is that we are well run and as a result need to spend within our means and this is why transfers take so long.
Even when we had CL we left it all to the last minute.

Sadly, chelsea and city have shown what needs to be done to join that elite group who are in the CL and have won the premier league. It may not be sustainable but it's very effective.

The other model is the arsenal and man u way but sadly that takes years and I think these two had success at the right time when money was pouring into football.

 

[jimmyb]

Prior to around 2009 we spent money like it was going out of fashion. All of a sudden it stopped. Why? Ticket prices went up, champions league income came by the bucketload, players went for much more than they were bought in. Yet still nothing's been spent. There's money there but we're holding it back.

Some said it was for the new manager as Levy didn't trust Harry with it - what a load of bollox that's turned out to be.

Levy said money would be available regardless of our stadium intentions - again looks like bollox.

Some said we must sell to make room in the 25 - guess what we have!!

Huge fudge up in my opinion.

Over the past few years, our priorities have changed. Previously, the task was to sign the required level of player to take us into the Champions League. Hence, we spent a lot of money on transfer fees.

But, over the past couple of years, the priority has been to keep the players that we already have at the club. Consequently, our wage bill has increased dramatically. In effect, we have made some very big signings over the past few years - and one especially big one earlier this summer. It's just that they were all already at the club.

I guess that we just don't have the finances to pay these inflated wages while still making a big splash in the transfer market. It's one or the other. At least until the new stadium has elevated on to an altogether higher financial tier.

 

[joey55]

DSF -

Levy's always confidently stated that the stadium build would never affect the transfer policy, true. However, much of that was said before the effects of the financial crisis became fully apparent. Cheap credit dried up, and is presumably still much harder to find than in the pre-2008 era. That presumably has had an effect on our ability to spend on the team. Ditto the money spent on the Stratford affair, which in all likelihood did come out of the club coffers, due to the suddenness of the whole affair and the need to move quickly. Ditto the increased wage budget, which remains at a CL level despite our last involvement in the competition coming a season and a bit ago. Ditto the new training ground, which has probably swallowed up much of the money received from the increased commercial deals we've signed over the last few years. All these things have impacted on our ability to spend.

Finally, there are very few players who can make a difference to the side at this point in time. It's no use going for the likes of Fletcher or Pogrebynak- they wouldn't elevate us to the level we want to be at. We're currently on the rung directly below the big boys - above the majority of our rivals but below the real giants of Europe. To get us up to their level, we need

a)Champions League footie, and

b)world-class players/coaching staff.

Now, we reach the crux of the problem - world class players will only come to us when we secure Champions League footie. However, with the massively competitive nature of the PL these days, we need a world-class player or two just to qualify for the aforementioned competition. So, we need players who will only come to us if we qualify for the CL, but we need those same players to help us qualify for the CL. It's a difficult situation to be in, but it's one we now find ourselves stuck in.

There is a way out of it, which is signing young, talented players who have slipped under the radar somewhat. Sandro was, and remains, a prime example of this type of signing. However, I very much doubt Redknapp even considered players from outside the PL and England, unless they were either very, very good (And thus well-known) or proven over the years (and thus on high wages). Thus, we find ourselves with no real targets to pursue other than the ones that, as mentioned before, are very unlikely to consider dropping to our level when they can simply wait for the bigger boys to come and pick them up. It's intensely frustrating.

AVB will change that, I'm sure of it. His scouting system will likely encompass a broader range of players, and we will eventually start picking up those raw diamonds, the ones that can make a difference to our team without being too expensive.
However ,for the moment, we're playing a really, really difficult game, and hence I'm not surprised we're not making much progress. I'm frustrated and angry, of course, but not surprised.

I look at the likes of Paulo Dybala('the new Sergio Aguero'), picked up by Palermo for a relatively minor fee, and I wonder why we aren't in for these players. Then I remember that the system we had in place for years has only just come to an end, and it'll take time for a more extensive, deliberative scouting system to be set up. IN the meantime, hope and pray, that's all we can do.

Why would AVB have a wide scouting network? He was head coach at Porto and Cheslea. He's never been a manager at a big club. There is no suggestion for his previous job that he is one of those managers who like to scout far an wide. We haven't got a clue what he is like in the transfer market. Prior, during and post his reign at Porto, they've recruited along the same lines and I seriously doubt the head coach suddenly started deciding things during his brief reign. At Chelsea he's unlikely to have had the ultimate say either and the only decent signings were Mata and Cahill, who were players Harry confirmed we were close to getting. So far we've signed 2 players who we were after before he arrived, so again it doesn't seem he's been that involved. I'm sure he'll have a an important say and if their is a specific player he wants, he'll pass it on, but he's probably just going to be head coach for us, as he was at Porto and Chelsea. Levy isn't going to give such an inexperienced guy a proper managers role. When Harry was in charge we signed as many raw diamonds, such as Walker and Sandro, as our top 6 rivals and it's unlikely we see them signed at a quicker rate in a new regime.



To me your post just reads like yet another example of how fans have decided what AVB is and it's not based on anything but typical message board poster ideals, which are again are usually based on very little. Fans always seem to have unrealistic expectations. AVB won't be doing 90% of the things our fans think he will, simply because the scope to do them isn't there. The tactical, fitness and recruitment expectations our fans seem to have placed on AVB can't be met,as the we weren't weak in any of these areas, despite the fact our fans are certain we were. We are/were a brilliantly run club, hence we over achieved and finished 4th. Within the constraints placed on a manager of Spurs, the chances of improving on that are tiny. The chances of making changes that cause us to go backwards are big. Our fans haven't in general acknowledged that, largely as it would require heaping praise on Harry and Levy.

We've seen it before under Ramos, when our fans were convinced Jol had an unfit squad that was tactically poor. But these accusations were absurd. Now we have a similar situation, only most of our fans think we will also see an improvement in player recruitment. AVB has such a tough job and the chances of him succeeding aren't high and our fans need to stop talking as if there obvious and easy improvements for him to make. There aren't and player recruitment is a key example of where we've actually been very good, given our restrictions compared to top 6 rivals, yet our fans are convinced we've been terrible.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

EVERTON have leapt to the front of the queue to land French golden boy M’Baye Niang.
The 17-year-old Caen hot-shot has been chased by Arsenal, where he spent a week on trial earlier this summer.
Spurs were hoping he would do likewise with them, but now Everton have nipped ahead of them.
He will spend the next few days working with the Blues at their Finch Farm training camp.
Caen want an instalment-based deal totalling around £5million for the pacy striker, who has become one of the wanted youngsters in Europe.
And Everton boss David Moyes has cash to spend, after Jack Rodwell’s £15m-plus move to Emirates Marketing Project.
The Gunners slipped down the pecking order because Wenger was unwilling to pay a large chunk of his fee up front.
Yet although Spurs are still keen — as are AC Milan and Emirates Marketing Project — Moyes hopes his speed off the mark will leave him in pole position.
Niang’s contract runs for another two years.
Two seasons ago he made history by becoming the youngest player to appear for Caen, at just 16 years and 114 days.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Why would AVB have a wide scouting network? He was head coach at Porto and Cheslea. He's never been a manager at a big club. There is no suggestion for his previous job that he is one of those managers who like to scout far an wide. We haven't got a clue what he is like in the transfer market. Prior, during and post his reign at Porto, they've recruited along the same lines and I seriously doubt the head coach suddenly started deciding things during his brief reign. At Chelsea he's unlikely to have had the ultimate say either and the only decent signings were Mata and Cahill, who were players Harry confirmed we were close to getting. So far we've signed 2 players who we were after before he arrived, so again it doesn't seem he's been that involved. I'm sure he'll have a an important say and if their is a specific player he wants, he'll pass it on, but he's probably just going to be head coach for us, as he was at Porto and Chelsea. Levy isn't going to give such an inexperienced guy a proper managers role. When Harry was in charge we signed as many raw diamonds, such as Walker and Sandro, as our top 6 rivals and it's unlikely we see them signed at a quicker rate in a new regime.



To me your post just reads like yet another example of how fans have decided what AVB is and it's not based on anything but typical message board poster ideals, which are again are usually based on very little. Fans always seem to have unrealistic expectations. AVB won't be doing 90% of the things our fans think he will, simply because the scope to do them isn't there. The tactical, fitness and recruitment expectations our fans seem to have placed on AVB can't be met,as the we weren't weak in any of these areas, despite the fact our fans are certain we were. We are/were a brilliantly run club, hence we over achieved and finished 4th. Within the constraints placed on a manager of Spurs, the chances of improving on that are tiny. The chances of making changes that cause us to go backwards are big. Our fans haven't in general acknowledged that, largely it would require heaping praise on Harry and Levy. But we've seen it before under Ramos, when our fans were convinced Jol had an unfit squad that was tactically poor. But these accusations were absurd. Now we have a similar situation, only most of our fans think we will also see an improvement in player recruitment. AVB has such a tough job and the chances of him succeeding aren't high and our fans need to stop talking as if there obvious and easy improvements for him to make. There aren't and player recruitment is a key example of where we've actually been very good, given our restrictions compared to top 6 rivals, yet our fans are convinced we've been terrible.

Harry didn't know about the Sandro deal till he read about it in the news, if I recall correctly. Apart from Sandro, the only other young players I can recall being signed to play in the first team were Walker and Naughton. Both from England. The last major young talent we signed from abroad was....? Coulibaly, perhaps, though he seems to be one for the long-term.

As for not being weak in the tactical, fitness or preparation areas...I'm not getting into that. Suffice to say that playing 4-4-2 away against your North London rivals and sitting in your seat hoping your team could make it to half-time without getting mullered doesn't sound like an inspired tactical maneuver to me. Fitness wise, Tony Parks admitted in that Q and A he did recently that the reason the team faded away towards the end of the 2010-2011 season was because of tiredness caused by lack of preparation and rotation. Recruitment wise, Harry wanted Tevez, Aguero and the like, didn't he? He didn't want Suarez because he didn't think he could play up front on his own, if I recall. Sounds like brilliant recruitment policy to me.

Quite simply, if a manager can improve on our fitness levels through the use of proper rotation and training, he'll have improved the team. If a manager can use tactical awareness to set the team out a specific way against the opposition, he'll have improved the team. If a manager can accurately assess lesser-known players and determine whether they fit into the system, instead of going after the big names, he'll have improved the team. All three are eminently achievable, they're not unachievable 'message board poster ideals'. We were well-run as a club. We had some flaws. AVB is seen as a solution to some of those flaws.

As for AVB's scouting network, he's worked in Portugal with Academica and Porto,in Italy with Inter Milan, and in the UK with Chelsea and now us. In addition, it was widely reported that he spent much of the past year travelling around South America scouting players. In addition, most of the time during his spell working under Mourinho he was employed as an opposition scout, meaning he has knowledge of many of the players he's scouted, undoubtedly. Ergo, It's fairly certain that he'd have a larger network of contacts than, say, Harry would, when it comes to players outside the UK.

Finally, just one of our 'rivals', Chelsea, have, in recent years, signed Lucas Piazon, Matej Delac, Thibaut Courtois, Kevin De Bruyne, Oriol Romeu, Romelu Lukaku and Gael Kakuta, among many others. Compare that to our young signings over the past few years, especially from abroad; Sandro and....? Iago Falque?

There is value to be found outside the UK and outside the top-name markets. There were deficiencies with the running of our club. There still are. AVB is a better bet for solving those, however, than Harry was. Ergo, the fans are optimistic about what he can do. Not that hard to extrapolate these things.

 

[joey55]

Harry didn't know about the Sandro deal till he read about it in the news, if I recall correctly. Apart from Sandro, the only other young players I can recall being signed to play in the first team were Walker and Naughton. Both from England. The last major young talent we signed from abroad was....? Coulibaly, perhaps, though he seems to be one for the long-term.

As for not being weak in the tactical, fitness or preparation areas...I'm not getting into that. Suffice to say that playing 4-4-2 away against your North London rivals and sitting in your seat hoping your team could make it to half-time without getting mullered doesn't sound like an inspired tactical maneuver to me. Fitness wise, Tony Parks admitted in that Q and A he did recently that the reason the team faded away towards the end of the 2010-2011 season was because of tiredness caused by lack of preparation and rotation. Recruitment wise, Harry wanted Tevez, Aguero and the like, didn't he? He didn't want Suarez because he didn't think he could play up front on his own, if I recall. Sounds like brilliant recruitment policy to me.

Quite simply, if a manager can improve on our fitness levels through the use of proper rotation and training, he'll have improved the team. If a manager can use tactical awareness to set the team out a specific way against the opposition, he'll have improved the team. If a manager can accurately assess lesser-known players and determine whether they fit into the system, instead of going after the big names, he'll have improved the team. All three are eminently achievable, they're not unachievable 'message board poster ideals'. We were well-run as a club. We had some flaws. AVB is seen as a solution to some of those flaws.

As for AVB's scouting network, he's worked in Portugal with Academica and Porto,in Italy with Inter Milan, and in the UK with Chelsea and now us. In addition, it was widely reported that he spent much of the past year travelling around South America scouting players. In addition, most of the time during his spell working under Mourinho he was employed as an opposition scout, meaning he has knowledge of many of the players he's scouted, undoubtedly. Ergo, It's fairly certain that he'd have a larger network of contacts than, say, Harry would, when it comes to players outside the UK.

Finally, just one of our 'rivals', Chelsea, have, in recent years, signed Lucas Piazon, Matej Delac, Thibaut Courtois, Kevin De Bruyne, Oriol Romeu, Romelu Lukaku and Gael Kakuta, among many others. Compare that to our young signings over the past few years, especially from abroad; Sandro and....? Iago Falque?

There is value to be found outside the UK and outside the top-name markets. There were deficiencies with the running of our club. There still are. AVB is a better bet for solving those, however, than Harry was. Ergo, the fans are optimistic about what he can do. Not that hard to extrapolate these things.

You've just again totally speculated where AVB is concerned. You have know idea at all of his role in player recruitment at his previous clubs. You've then listed a number of players signed by Cheslea, who cost them more money than we could afford to spend on youth recruitment, who are thus far yet to demonstrate they are good signings.

Harry didn't hear about Sandro in the newspapers. You haven't read that anywhere, unless Gutterboy made it up and posted it here. Broomfield, Harry's chief scout and thus very much part of our scouting network, was the guy Harry credited.

You say there is value outside the UK, which is obvious. However, you seem to think this means AVB will improve players recruitment. I'll demonstrate, why this is a classic example of unfair and unrealistic expectation:

You aren't happy with our transfer market activity under Harry and think AVB can take us forward in this department. Arsene Wenger is famous for his world wide scouting and transfer market brilliance. So to see how realistic your expectations are, lets have a look at the players signed by Wenger during Harry's reign, to see how far lagging behind the best in the business we were under and Harry and see how easy it is to be better than Harry. Of course it should be noted than Arsenal are a bigger, more prestigious club, who pay more and have always had CL football. But we'll ignore these huge advantages.

Andrei Arshavin - was 27 at the time, cost a lot and is considered a flop
Mikel Sylvestre- cost £750,000 hardly kicked a ball and was crap
Sol Campbell - free, short term, no harm done, but hardly inspired and would be seen as a "typical Harry" signing.
Thomas Vermaelen - Good signing, the sort you are hoping for.
Seabastian Squillaci - was 30, cost £4 million and was brick.
Koscielny - Good signing, the type you want to see
Per Mertesacker - Average signing at best and bit of a waste of money.
Arteta - Would be seen as a typical Harry
Santos - £6 million and pretty poor
Park - £3 million and poor
Alex Ox - Good, but expensive and everyone wanted him.
Gervinho - Expensive and disappointed in general.
Henry - Typical Harry.

So the guy with the best reputation in the Prem, didn't exactly set the world a light with his signings during Harry's reign. Most of his foreign buys weren't really all that great at all and only Koscielny and Vermaelen were successes. I don't think it's biased to say that during Harry's time at the club the players we bought, helped us make much greater strides than Arsenal. However, instead of focusing on the fact our safety first (ie Prem proven) strategy proved superior to that of the great Arsene Wengers, many of our fans see it as a reason to criticize and expect AVB to improve on it. It just goes to show that expectations are unrealistic. This is further enhanced by the fact you make a comparison with money bags Cheslea! How are we supposed to be able to throw money at young foreign talent like that? It's even unfair to compare with Arsenal as they can afford to invest far more in scouting and recruitment. Our fans compare with ideals and not with reality. If Wenger can't do it, then don't expect AVB, who as far as we know has very little experience with player recruitment and developing scouting networks. Part of the reason we progressed well under Harry was his ability to make the changes to the team he felt necessary and with players he knew could handle this league. Our fans might have hated it, but it needs to be acknowledged that it was an effective way for us to move forward and to develop a more effective player recruitment policy will be very challenging for AVB, given the constraints he'll have as Spurs coach.

Be honest, had you even thought of it like that? I say fans compare with ideals and not reality and I think that's very true. It's the same with the whole tactics argument, which falls flat on its ass when you start comparing Harry with other managers, instead of some un-testable ideal fans have. Arsenal-mania is awash with fans who are sure of Wengers utter tactical incompetence. Yet I wonder how tactically incompetent both Harry and Wenger would look with the budget Mancinni has!

 

[DubaiSpur]

You've just again totally speculated where AVB is concerned. You have know idea at all of his role in player recruitment at his previous clubs. You've then listed a number of players signed by Cheslea, who cost them more money than we could afford to spend on youth recruitment, who are thus far yet to demonstrate they are good signings.

Harry didn't hear about Sandro in the newspapers. You haven't read that anywhere, unless Gutterboy made it up and posted it here. Broomfield, Harry's chief scout and thus very much part of our scouting network, was the guy Harry credited.

You say there is value outside the UK, which is obvious. However, you seem to think this means AVB will improve players recruitment. I'll demonstrate, why this is a classic example of unfair and unrealistic expectation:

You aren't happy with our transfer market activity under Harry and think AVB can take us forward in this department. Arsene Wenger is famous for his world wide scouting and transfer market brilliance. So to see how realistic your expectations are, lets have a look at the players signed by Wenger during Harry's reign, to see how far lagging behind the best in the business we were under and Harry and see how easy it is to be better than Harry. Of course it should be noted than Arsenal are a bigger, more prestigious club, who pay more and have always had CL football. But we'll ignore these huge advantages.

Andrei Arshavin - was 27 at the time, cost a lot and is considered a flop
Mikel Sylvestre- cost £750,000 hardly kicked a ball and was crap
Sol Campbell - free, short term, no harm done, but hardly inspired and would be seen as a "typical Harry" signing.
Thomas Vermaelen - Good signing, the sort you are hoping for.
Seabastian Squillaci - was 30, cost £4 million and was brick.
Koscielny - Good signing, the type you want to see
Per Mertesacker - Average signing at best and bit of a waste of money.
Arteta - Would be seen as a typical Harry
Santos - £6 million and pretty poor
Park - £3 million and poor
Alex Ox - Good, but expensive and everyone wanted him.
Gervinho - Expensive and disappointed in general.
Henry - Typical Harry.

So the guy with the best reputation in the Prem, didn't exactly set the world a light with his signings during Harry's reign. Most of his foreign buys weren't really all that great at all and only Koscielny and Vermaelen were successes. I don't think it's biased to say that during Harry's time at the club the players we bought, helped us make much greater strides than Arsenal. However, instead of focusing on the fact our safety first (ie Prem proven) strategy proved superior to that of the great Arsene Wengers, many of our fans see it as a reason to criticize and expect AVB to improve on it. It just goes to show that expectations are unrealistic. This is further enhanced by the fact you make a comparison with money bags Cheslea! How are we supposed to be able to throw money at young foreign talent like that? It's even unfair to compare with Arsenal as they can afford to invest far more in scouting and recruitment. Our fans compare with ideals and not with reality. If Wenger can't do it, then don't expect AVB, who as far as we know has very little experience with player recruitment and developing scouting networks. Part of the reason we progressed well under Harry was his ability to make the changes to the team he felt necessary and with players he knew could handle this league. Our fans might have hated it, but it needs to be acknowledged that it was an effective way for us to move forward and to develop a more effective player recruitment policy will be very challenging for AVB, given the constraints he'll have as Spurs coach.

Be honest, had you even thought of it like that? I say fans compare with ideals and not reality and I think that's very true. It's the same with the whole tactics argument, which falls flat on its ass when you start comparing Harry with other managers, instead of some un-testable ideal fans have. Arsenal-mania is awash with fans who are sure of Wengers utter tactical incompetence. Yet I wonder how tactically incompetent both Harry and Wenger would look with the budget Mancinni has!

Good points, well made, will answer tomorrow morning. Canada time, of course.