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'Soldier beheaded' outside barracks in Woolwich

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

I can't believe the woman just walks right past him
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

AuroRaman said:
Absolutely with you there mate. Lets not kid ourselves, the overwhelming evidence points to the fact this was an act in the name of a religion, irrespective of the state of mind of the attackers.

However, there are always high-ranking members of the community speaking out in the media after an incident like this. Working in tv I have witnessed this on many occasions. Perhaps as you say there needs to be an individual or group that indefatigably stands up and speaks out. Sadly, our media tends to give them less airtime when they do reach out.

To give a footballing example, say 6 thousand Millwall supporters travel to an away game, and of those, 20 idiots decide to start causing trouble in and around the ground. Suddenly, every supporter is tarred as a thug etc, because Millwall have 'history' for this. The media will report it as so, despite a very concentrated effort by the club to take severe action against this minority and zero tolerance stance that they have employed in recent years. Remember the backlash Spurs supporters received as a whole after the ****bell/Portsmouth chanting? Sorry for bringing football into random.
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Lets not beat around the bush. I hear what you are saying but the fact is it was an act in the name of a religion which is Islam. Lets not tread on eggshells here. Its all well people going on tv with words that have no effect at all, so change what is not working then.

Go onto youtube if your voice isnt being heard by the Muslim community.go into schools and get under the skin of it. A serious lack of motivation is whats wrong but many cry wolf and act hard done by.

And finally, if people want to tar a whole people with a brush because of one incident then thst says more about them. And it works both ways. All white english people are not thinking every muslim is an extremist, that is what people claim when they want to deflect bad publicity and stem the real issues being discussed about Islam/muslim extremists.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

thfcsteff said:
Honestly? No. It seems like the vicious act of insane, high thugs. The fact they reportedly used religion as a reason does not make them men of any faith. Again, I think it's weird that a machete/cleaver involved; this is associated with the brutalities of Rwanda, the Congo, etc.

I might well be very wrong, but these men did not strike me as practicing Muslims in any way...words? I don't know what they fully said.
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Seriously, murder somebody in the name of a said faith yet you believe nothing to do with it?
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

THFC said:
Lets not beat around the bush. I hear what you are saying but the fact is it was an act in the name of a religion which is Islam. Lets not tread on eggshells here. Its all well people going on tv with words that have no effect at all, so change what is not working then.

Go onto youtube if your voice isnt being heard by the Muslim community.go into schools and get under the skin of it. A serious lack of motivation is whats wrong but many cry wolf and act hard done by.

And finally, if people want to tar a whole people with a brush because of one incident then thst says more about them. And it works both ways. All white english people are not thinking every muslim is an extremist, that is what people claim when they want to deflect bad publicity and stem the real issues being discussed about Islam/muslim extremists.
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Again, agree with everything bar the YouTube paragraph. One of the last jobs I did before leaving the UK was a documentary about suspected terror cells infiltrating the younger generation in Muslim communities and mosques. They are desperately trying to tackle this issue. And please may I advise going onto YouTube and looking into just how many videos are out there condemning any acts of terror, be it violence or spoken-word, by Muslims. Many of them a young age.

With regards to your last paragraph, we are thankfully part of the majority, we don't judge one act by placing it to a whole race, religion or society. Every religion has its extremists. And each has its own disgusting way of sending a ****ish 'message'. I've only experienced joyous love, compassion and happiness emanating from devout religious people when conversing with them, whether they are Christian, Muslim, Sikh, Catholic etc. I admire their faith even though I do not follow any religion myself.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Obviously this is a horrific act, but I think we (i.e. in this case English people) need to bear in mind that death and violence and murder are a part of life for many people around the world. We're outraged (rightly) at one man being hacked to death, but let's be honest - it pales in comparison to the tens of thousands of civilians killed by western troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (which was apparently the motivation for the attack - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22635379)

Apparently a NATO airstrike killed 10 Afghani children last month (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/aug/10/afghanistan-civilian-casualties-statistics), and whilst I of course am not trying to justify what happened yesterday, I can understand why people would want to retaliate (in general, not specifically in response to that airstrike).

It's easy for us to be shocked and appalled when our little bubble of peace is burst, but for many people they don't have that bubble at all, as their friends and family are killed by our soldiers. Of course accidental civilian deaths in war are different to the purposeful murder of an unarmed person, but terrorism generally occurs when a less powerful enemy is forced into fighting back. Violence begets violence, regardless of its form.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

thfcsteff said:
Yes, lets examine them before writing them off as 'terrorist' acts and 'jihad' and some of the other total fudging nonsense that is being written without basis and thus causing every muslim to once again be written off as a terrorist (just for the record I am not a muslim)...I'm sorry, whatever brick these dingdongheads were spouting is not enough for them to be given a religious label. They were sick bastards with obvious mental issues either brought on by insanity or drugs (or both)...
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=D>
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

My issue is this - yes many thousands of innicent people have died, but why take this to the every day person on the street, millions of people mostly white englush people, marched against the war yet terrorists still wish to target those people
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

THFC said:
My issue is this - yes many thousands of innicent people have died, but why take this to the every day person on the street, millions of people mostly white englush people, marched against the war yet terrorists still wish to target those people
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They targeted this guy specifically because he was a soldier, who they therefore saw as not innocent. And as I said, tens of thousands of "every day person on the street" have been killed by Western soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. They're just as innocent, and whilst two wrongs of course don't make a right, I can understand how the powerlessness to stop those tens of thousands of deaths of your kin, coupled with righteous anger and a sense of injustice, can lead to revenge attacks of this kind. All violence is awful, and this act was particularly shocking because of its brutality, but IMO (brutality aside) this was no more awful than any of the tens of thousands of civilan deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Im afraid you are clapping a comment which is just as ignorant as a person who claims all muslims are terrorists.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

elltrev said:
They targeted this guy specifically because he was a soldier, who they therefore saw as not innocent. And as I said, tens of thousands of "every day person on the street" have been killed by Western soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. They're just as innocent, and whilst two wrongs of course don't make a right, I can understand how the powerlessness to stop those tens of thousands of deaths of your kin, coupled with righteous anger and a sense of injustice, can lead to revenge attacks of this kind. All violence is awful, and this act was particularly shocking because of its brutality, but IMO (brutality aside) this was no more awful than any of the tens of thousands of civilan deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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They assumed he was a soldier they didnt know that. He was wearing a help the hero's t shirt so hardly enough to mske such an assumption. This was an attack in a man not in army uniform, but in face value they targetted him.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

THFC said:
They assumed he was a soldier they didnt know that. He was wearing a help the hero's t shirt so hardly enough to mske such an assumption. This was an attack in a man not in army uniform, but in face value they targetted him.
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I don't know the details, but they thought he was a soldier and he was. According to the woman who spoke to one of them, they killed the guy because "he had killed Muslim people" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22635379).
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

AuroRaman said:
Again, agree with everything bar the YouTube paragraph. One of the last jobs I did before leaving the UK was a documentary about suspected terror cells infiltrating the younger generation in Muslim communities and mosques. They are desperately trying to tackle this issue. And please may I advise going onto YouTube and looking into just how many videos are out there condemning any acts of terror, be it violence or spoken-word, by Muslims. Many of them a young age.

With regards to your last paragraph, we are thankfully part of the majority, we don't judge one act by placing it to a whole race, religion or society. Every religion has its extremists. And each has its own disgusting way of sending a ****ish 'message'. I've only experienced joyous love, compassion and happiness emanating from devout religious people when conversing with them, whether they are Christian, Muslim, Sikh, Catholic etc. I admire their faith even though I do not follow any religion myself.
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As soon as I hear the word 'try' then its clearly not hard enough. Each may have their own way but the ways of the culture and country/customs they now live in should be considered and this is not acceptable at all.

And with regards ti Youtube, if change was really what people in the said community wanted it would happen. They would speak out more, they would try and make positive changes more rather than say they have ticked a box that they have made a bit of effort its a fudging disgrace.

Look how many people turned out for anti war protests at short notice, how many millions. And a certain community cant seem to do something similar.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

THFC said:
My issue is this - yes many thousands of innicent people have died, but why take this to the every day person on the street, millions of people mostly white englush people, marched against the war yet terrorists still wish to target those people
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Are the tens of thousands of people who died not everyday people in the street?

Why start wars under false pretences and risk the lives of our own for political and financial global dominance?

I said it earlier, WE are the ones that are affected most by these actions across the globe.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

AuroRaman said:
Are the tens of thousands of people who died not everyday people in the street?

Why start wars under false pretences and risk the lives of our own for political and financial global dominance?

I said it earlier, WE are the ones that are affected most by these actions across the globe.
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So what was the point of the millions marching to prevent the war?
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

THFC said:
As soon as I hear the word 'try' then its clearly not hard enough. Each may have their own way but the ways of the culture and country/customs they now live in should be considered and this is not acceptable at all.

And with regards ti Youtube, if change was really what people in the said community wanted it would happen. They would speak out more, they would try and make positive changes more rather than say they have ticked a box that they have made a bit of effort its a fudging disgrace.

Look how many people turned out for anti war protests at short notice, how many millions. And a certain community cant seem to do something similar.
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Our Western armies always try to bring democracy to other nations. They also try not to kill innocent civilians. I'm pretty sure the KKK, BNP and EDL have tried to distance themselves from spewing hatred and acts of violence.

The people that protest against hatred and war are the biggest fudging heroes in my opinion. They're still only trying to make a difference.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

AuroRaman said:
Are the tens of thousands of people who died not everyday people in the street?

Why start wars under false pretences and risk the lives of our own for political and financial global dominance?

I said it earlier, WE are the ones that are affected most by these actions across the globe.
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This is a prime example if how radicals are made- tarring every man in the west with the same brush.
 
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