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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

richie_spur said:
You shouldn't need to put any context around why you find this kind of incendiary brick offensive. As a white lower middle aged, lower middle class male with no background in any of this I also find this kind of meme disgusting and believe this should be the default position of any rational thinking person.

I don't do social media for exactly this reason, it is full of crap people just pass on without actually considering what they are saying. I think people should be more responsible, and held responsible, for what they put online (the crap posted above included).
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Alas we are in an era of decline; of rational thinking, critical thinking and just plain old stopping and thinking.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Yeh for sure. Its also about society messages including the post commentary to come out of this kind of tragedy, if you keep telling a demographic of people that they are good for nothing and there is no hope, you get alot of that.

I have a good friend who does alot of social work in South London, one of the capitals of knife crime here and its the same thing there, these kids are not born to be killers with knives but the messages that surround them are negative from early on "you are black, your dads not around, you have not future, you will just be like him" that makes them easy prey for gangs. It goes a long way to forming the minds of the kids,

Not to go too deep and left field, I think the schools system needs reform for these hotspots, kids need attainment targets that apply to them, you know from an age kids who will thrive academically and those that don't have the aptitude or care for it so why not reform the system so that rather than French, Shakespeare and Science have a futures pathway which gets kids ready for life and work. Get kids to feel the rewards of what it means to earn and have money in their pockets, kids love rewarding and stuff thats attainable so have something that does that within their skills or desires. I don't think work experience or cheap as chips work schemes post school is enough. Yeh it would be long and it would be complex (it should be) but kids deserve more than being taught archaic subjects that won't have a bearing on their lives when they leave the class, thats if they even turn up
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So much of this is on the money.
From the "the youth are feckless, lazy and entitled" and "our future has been ruined by the boomers" to the "immigrants stealing our homes, benefits and culture" and the "everyone is against us because we are different", it's all just so much gonads.
You can't just take whole demographics and apply such broad brushes to them. We are all individuals.
And yes the targets of aspirations should be different for us all, we need an achievable goal but one which will help us to improve ourselves and the lives of those around. It shouldn't be just a tick on some information gatherers sheet.
This pigeon holing is so destructive.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Well if the government would release more detailed figures on crimes committed, by which members of society. Then I guess our great thinkers at Universities the lecturers who so influence policy think tanks. They could give a full picture then we could create laws to better suit the country.

We had a lot enter from Hong Kong in the last 2 years, would be interested in the crimes commited and how much social housing they have used.

It would then be helpful for the government going forward when making policies.

We know a couple from Hong Kong who live in Brighton and they are absolutely wonderful. Did not bat an eye lid when I asked for a knife and falk. I can't use chop sticks, never could but now I just blame the Parkinson's haha.
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My wife’s family are from Hong Kong. And some of them have moved over to the UK in the last couple of years because China now essentially controls HK and people don’t have freedom like we know it. They are usually very law abiding and just kind of get on with things and work very hard.

I wouldn’t be against the government releasing data on crime, who commits it and against who etc. From what I know about knife crime it is not something that is limited to one race or one group of people unfortunately it’s something that’s quite ubiquitous amongst the younger generation. I guess there is an element of people carrying them because everyone else does similar to why parents often buy big cars to drop their kids off at school because they don’t want to be hit by one in a Honda civic.
 
glasgowspur said:
So much of this is on the money.
From the "the youth are feckless, lazy and entitled" and "our future has been ruined by the boomers" to the "immigrants stealing our homes, benefits and culture" and the "everyone is against us because we are different", it's all just so much gonad*s.
You can't just take whole demographics and apply such broad brushes to them. We are all individuals.
And yes the targets of aspirations should be different for us all, we need an achievable goal but one which will help us to improve ourselves and the lives of those around. It shouldn't be just a tick on some information gatherers sheet.
This pigeon holing is so destructive.
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Of course, it definitely is about money you are spot on

Honestly I look back at school and I was a fair achiever, not top but above average and there were lessons that frankly made zero sense to me and were worse for others. Extensive lessons on Shakespeare, musical sheet music and complex molecule structures...........its going to fall on death ears
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Steff you know I love you.

But and I don't know because I try not to watch the news. But what was it that Mark wrote that was inflammatory?

OK it was only referencing people of colour and as I often hear child abuse is usually instigated by white people. I would not class a post referencing white people doing child abuse crimes as inflammatory but more consider the was an issue that needs addressing.

The does seem to be an issue with sections of our society, but instead of debating it, it seems people want to shut it down straight away by calling it inflammatory.
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I appreciate what you are trying to do.
There was no debate there.
You know it.
The crime was appalling.
I think you should take note of the direction of traffic in the thread. BTW, my lights aren't powered by gas mate.
BTW your assertion leaves nothing but assumptions as to what you mean: the facts are out there.
 
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Grays_1890 said:
Of course, it definitely is about money you are spot on

Honestly I look back at school and I was a fair achiever, not top but above average and there were lessons that frankly made zero sense to me and were worse for others. Extensive lessons on Shakespeare, musical sheet music and complex molecule structures...........its going to fall on death ears
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  • “There’s method in the madness.”
 
monkeybarry said:
I'm in a lucky position on this one:
I'm Autistic, so get to focus on the facts.
I'm heavily involved in the Criminal Justice System - so I get to see things in a way others don't.
I don't have kids - so don't sit on either side of the highly emotive fence.

I can understand how and why you and Marky have reacted the ways you have.
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I appreciate that.
I have kids mate.
The crime was/is horrendous whoever committed it.

Let's make that fact very clear again; the crime was/is horrendous. And tragic.

What I personally won't take is using it as an excuse for agendas.
 
thfcsteff said:
I appreciate that.
I have kids mate.
The crime was/is horrendous whoever committed it.

Let's make that fact very clear again; the crime was/is horrendous. And tragic.

What I personally won't take is using it as an excuse for agendas.
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Also respect for the parents and those children is needed by all, the gobbing off, the screaming down of the PM, the agendas by TR and his band of cnuts is just not needed now, nows is the time for grief and respect, not false accusations and mob rule
 
thfcsteff said:
I appreciate what you are trying to do.
There was no debate there.
You know it.
The crime was appalling.
I think you should take note of the direction of traffic in the thread. BTW, my lights aren't powered by gas mate.
BTW your assertion leaves nothing but assumptions as to what you mean: the facts are out there.
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Im not really sure what a lot of that post meant, honestly. Hope I did not cause you offence. Was not my intention.

Thought I was being pretty impartial because honestly I'm no where near as passionate or interested in politics as I was even 5 years ago.

I have even lost track of what crime we are talking about. If you call it appalling I would believe you because you are a level headed decent guy. Genuinely lost track of which crime sparked the latest incident.

A lot of people I know bemoan that the Albanians cause so much crime in Brighton, now that I assume is immigration rather then asylum, differences which would be important to note because we should take asylum seekers. But I'm guessing the Albanian crime gangs are not asylum seekers.

If we had detailed records of crime and the perpetrators origins we could then target our under resourced police force better to deal with it.

I mentioned the new arrivals from Hong Kong as my wife works with one and we have been to dinner a couple of times with them. A lovely couple.

As for the direction of traffic of the thread, well I will take each post on individual merit. If marky comes put and says offensive remarks or tries to incite violence against people he should be banned. As you may know I said a stupid joke the other week, did not mean what I said in the joke. But had you guys banned me for a month I would have said fair enough, I made a stupid crass remark.

I need to see the actual remark that marky has said before I condemn him, and I will if it warrants it. Im on no ones side, I will take all sides into account.

I maintain your one of my favourite posters, a clearly intelligent person. Im a decent person but sometimes thick because to be honest with you I have actually no idea what you mean when you say your lights aren't powered by gas.

Think your a superb poster and im not trying to provoke. Must be all the Yoga the past 2 weeks but I feel on a sound equilibrium at the moment.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Also respect for the parents and those children is needed by all, the gobbing off, the screaming down of the PM, the agendas by TR and his band of cnuts is just not needed now, nows is the time for grief and respect, not false accusations and mob rule
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I might be getting the wrong end of the stick and it appears to some I have. But I agree that the way the politicians behave in the house of commons is wrong, should be like Scotland where you get your chance to talk then someone else does.

Would be a far more mature democracy and could feed down into other areas.
 
Mikey10 said:
Swallowing any old b o llocks circulating on the internet, as per, I see.
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Well a lot actually all issues at the moment can be attributed to the Conservatives. Only after a couple of years will I put any blame at Labours door at the earliest.

Probably going to go against a lot on here. But I will do so because it is my opinion not because I'm trying to provoke. Feel that a lot more prisons should be built.

Going off on a tangent but I was disgusted that guy in the Olympics who raped a 12 year old only served a year. It is why on the whole I don't watch the news and try and keep away from it.

Again not meaning to cause anyone offence.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Im not really sure what a lot of that post meant, honestly. Hope I did not cause you offence. Was not my intention.

Thought I was being pretty impartial because honestly I'm no where near as passionate or interested in politics as I was even 5 years ago.

I have even lost track of what crime we are talking about. If you call it appalling I would believe you because you are a level headed decent guy. Genuinely lost track of which crime sparked the latest incident.

A lot of people I know bemoan that the Albanians cause so much crime in Brighton, now that I assume is immigration rather then asylum, differences which would be important to note because we should take asylum seekers. But I'm guessing the Albanian crime gangs are not asylum seekers.

If we had detailed records of crime and the perpetrators origins we could then target our under resourced police force better to deal with it.

I mentioned the new arrivals from Hong Kong as my wife works with one and we have been to dinner a couple of times with them. A lovely couple.

As for the direction of traffic of the thread, well I will take each post on individual merit. If marky comes put and says offensive remarks or tries to incite violence against people he should be banned. As you may know I said a stupid joke the other week, did not mean what I said in the joke. But had you guys banned me for a month I would have said fair enough, I made a stupid crass remark.

I need to see the actual remark that marky has said before I condemn him, and I will if it warrants it. Im on no ones side, I will take all sides into account.

I maintain your one of my favourite posters, a clearly intelligent person. Im a decent person but sometimes thick because to be honest with you I have actually no idea what you mean when you say your lights aren't powered by gas.

Think your a superb poster and im not trying to provoke. Must be all the Yoga the past 2 weeks but I feel on a sound equilibrium at the moment.
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Understood mate, and thanks for taking the time to say that.

My biggest issue is that if we want to have discussions on topics like this (and I agree - discussion is always the best way forward) then they have to come from a place where there are at least some facts on the table. I understand the emotional velocity of many of the fudged up things happening in the world, and I further understand that some matters trigger in specific ways. My biggest single issue with this specific moment was that the facts which WERE available were apparently not enough to condemn the crime. It swiftly became a cudgel to advance other agendas, despite there being no further facts available beyond the crime itself. Like California wildfires, those small sparks in dry brush eat up hundred of acres a minute, and before you know it, the whole thing is massively beyond the starting point.

With the greatest of respect, who you choose to judge -and how- is absolutely none of my business.

With regards to your remark, yes it was crass and in my specific life a potential trigger, however you very quickly accepted it and held your hand up.

I stopped moderating because I am not interested in getting into who should or shouldn't be banned for what.

The bottom line is that in this specific case, misinformation has been spread as racist agents with an agenda look to force their own bricky views further. We do NOT KNOW the facts about the perpetrator. What we DO know is that kids were horrifically attacked, hurt, and killed. That's cause enough for discussions on knife crime and what we can do.

The specific crime that sparked the incident was the stabbing of young children at a dance event in Southport by a single male.

I will say that IF (as it appears has already happened) there is an agenda to hold specific communities and people 'responsible' for things which factually have not been established as even touching them, then perhaps there is something to be said about reflecting on the tens of thousands of children right now in several countries who are suffering greatly/dead. Again, I think if this specific crime is being discussed, then the facts are what should dictate the flow of conversation.


Not that you asked, but I will add in general why I told the story about my Dad. I did so because I have often reflected on the sheer double ignorance of the racism he suffered. 'Paki'. He was Iranian. They aren't 'all the same' but when racists want to weaponise the agenda and hurl it out into the world, the people who get sucked in end up failing on simple facts! For the record, in my heart of hearts I do not believe Marky is malicious, I simply think he found his emotions on the rise and that perhaps the channels he goes to for his information led with this 'anti immigrant/Britian as a 3rd world country' agenda, an agenda by the way I find both repulsive and wrong. In a sense (and I appreciate there is lots of assumption here) I want to believe that if he gets distance from it all, he would totally see how racist provocateurs 'play' and 'use' these situations to stoke up the race/culture wars they desperately want.

The reason I have written this long reply mate, is again because I agree that even at the height of anger, discussion and listening is the only way we might find our way long-term out of this increasing wormhole, thus allowing our kids to maybe have better lives.

I genuinely appreciate your efforts to have a conversation.






p.s. With regards to the asylum seeker issues you have raised, I started a thread with some facts and figures for those interested. The facts and figures are out there with regards to 'breakdowns' (the uk gov has extensive stats - suffice to say the facts don't reflect the paranoia). There is a discussion to be had with regards as to how asylum seekers are kept whilst awaiting processing i.e. certain groups can end up in situation where they are 'housed' next to other groups they don't get on with, and coupled with the indefinite waiting, problems arise.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Also respect for the parents and those children is needed by all, the gobbing off, the screaming down of the PM, the agendas by TR and his band of cnuts is just not needed now, nows is the time for grief and respect, not false accusations and mob rule
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This. All day.
 
So a whole town comes out for a vigil to mourn the murder of 3 young girls and to remember those still fighting for their lives.
And the far right think it is the appropriate time to turn up with their hatred and their violence and cause mayhem. Absolute scum. Let's not pretend they care one jot for those who are in mourning.
 
By the way THIS is why I -and others- got angry about what was posted on this forum regarding the tragedy in Southport. You can always trust the EDL to model the worst behaviour, and they've gone and done it again here. Using a tragedy as a vehicle for their own brick. Using their social media buglers as trumpeteers to spread false messages. With consequences. I wonder how many Asian people will now be attacked because of this?

...just to be clear, the police have confirmed only ONE thing about the suspect; they were born in Britain, thus they are British. IF you are born in Britain, again, you are British WHEREVER YOUR PARENTS ARE FROM!!!!!!! These tossers don't CARE about that, they just want to TRIGGER people. Despicable.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...outside-southport-mosque-after-knife-killings
 
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