Sick sick world what is wrong with people

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Our societies have turned violence into a cartoon, virtually ever action/thriller film must have some "realistic" violence and glorify the hero who kills as many as possible in terrible ways. Some young people see this and have no concept of the consequences of such actions and the tradegy it brings. I'm not saying it's the cause of all these terrible things but it certainly doesn't help the situation.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I personally just don't think it needs classifying either way by skin colour as someone said earlier, sick people take any forms. For every incident like yesterday by someone classified as an immigrant there is a kid shot on the doorstep in Liverpool, for every Rochdale rape there was the systematic abuse of kids by the catholic church. James Bulger, Keri Matthews, Shannon Mathews, Shipman.....they all happened without classification of being white, they were just sick, like this

We have our own scum for sure. Dont need to import more problems. Would love to know the crime rates commited by the new arrivals from Hong Kong recently.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I personally just don't think it needs classifying either way by skin colour as someone said earlier, sick people take any forms. For every incident like yesterday by someone classified as an immigrant there is a kid shot on the doorstep in Liverpool, for every Rochdale rape there was the systematic abuse of kids by the catholic church. James Bulger, Keri Matthews, Shannon Mathews, Shipman.....they all happened without classification of being white, they were just sick, like this

They were also British and born here. The is a debate to be had about more prison places which I would agree with.

I keep hearing the is a housing shortage in this country, government are not keeping records of where public/social housing is being allocated and I wonder why. Because my experience of government is they love to record everything.

Releasing full facts will take the wind out of the sails of Tommy Robinson.

 

[Grays_1890]

We have our own scum for sure. Dont need to import more problems. Would love to know the crime rates commited by the new arrivals from Hong Kong recently.

How do you sift through immigration applications knowing who is going to commit crime and who isn't? For the same reason you would have not known an upstanding Dr like Shipman could have possibly been a killer or that girl who was inexplicably injecting babies to their death? Would we have been able to spot that if they came through the immigration process?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

How do you sift through immigration applications knowing who is going to commit crime and who isn't? For the same reason you would have not known an upstanding Dr like Shipman could have possibly been a killer or that girl who was inexplicably injecting babies to their death? Would we have been able to spot that if they came through the immigration process?

Well you could at the very least make enquiries to their country of origin, you could also to meet your quota of the ones to take target families instead of single men who would more likely be the ones causing crime.

Quicker deportations of people committing crime would help reassure the public and calm any extremist right wing movements.

 

[Grays_1890]

Well you could at the very least make enquiries to their country of origin, you could also to meet your quota of the ones to take target families instead of single men who would more likely be the ones causing crime.

Quicker deportations of people committing crime would help reassure the public and calm any extremist right wing movements.

Yeh but thats not going to be a bullet proof method, not going to stop sick people appearing because they come from all walks of life, so even if we made those checks and one appeared people are still going to throw about "bloody immigrants"

 

[glasgowspur]

We classify because we want to understand how/why these horrific incidents happen.
Truth is that there is no understanding it, incidents of this nature are not carried out by your average person, so the average person will never understand it.
Either they have severe mental health issues or are just nasty horrible people.
Classifying is an easy answer, and the wrong one.
Unfortunately the system is failing a lot of people, both in mental health and in education.
Even more unfortunately there are just some really evil people out there, and that's not restricted to any one race, creed or colour.

 

[monkeybarry]

You have articulated matters better than I could. It is vital to avoid the tropes, and instead see it as a terrible and sad crime.

FWIW two years ago my daughter's school went into lockdown due to a shooter.

I'm in a lucky position on this one:
I'm Autistic, so get to focus on the facts.
I'm heavily involved in the Criminal Justice System - so I get to see things in a way others don't.
I don't have kids - so don't sit on either side of the highly emotive fence.

I can understand how and why you and Marky have reacted the ways you have.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Yeh but thats not going to be a bullet proof method, not going to stop sick people appearing because they come from all walks of life, so even if we made those checks and one appeared people are still going to throw about "bloody immigrants"

Of course it would not be bulletproof, very few things in life. Life has taught me that one thing you can aim for is incremental improvements.

Thats a pretty good starting point, incremental improvements. Think we should aim for that rather then worry that the will always be a core of racists that moan no matter what.

Get the feeling that some people in this country want everyone to think, feel and vote they will. Life has taught me that never happens. But trying to make things generally better is a noble endeavour. Should we not even try for that.

Swam in the sea yesterday against my better judgement. I want to see the water companies pump no untreated sewage in the sea, not going to happen. So I will have to settle for incremental improvements.

The alternative is to just let everything get worse otherwise. I voted Labour not because they will cure all the problems but they will in view make things better or less worse then the Conservatives.

Don't worry about what a minority of idiots think, but every government department should be looking to make things better whether it is immigration or environment or education. Well thats my view anyway.

 

[braineclipse]

Steff you know I love you.

But and I don't know because I try not to watch the news. But what was it that Mark wrote that was inflammatory?

OK it was only referencing people of colour and as I often hear child abuse is usually instigated by white people. I would not class a post referencing white people doing child abuse crimes as inflammatory but more consider the was an issue that needs addressing.

The does seem to be an issue with sections of our society, but instead of debating it, it seems people want to shut it down straight away by calling it inflammatory.

Steff has contributed a lot more to making conversations around difficult topics possible and useful than most on this board.

If Mark wanted to engage in an actual thoughtful debate he could have, you know, done that. He's still free to. He can literally do that any time he pleases. Whenever.

It's not on everyone else to respond to inflammatory brick in a thoughtful way. A meaningful conversation takes at least two people trying to have a meaningful conversation.

 

[braineclipse]

Its tough because its a domestic weapon but I think we have to do more for social and mental health at a young age. The Tories literally cut to shreds funding for community support and social outreach and also policing so its a double threat.

I was watching an old Anthony Bourdain show and he was in Glasgow after they turned it around up there and its a long term vision thing where ultimately you have to raise the prospects of kids over a long period of time and change the ever pumped up narrative that the only prospect for them is one of crime and gangs. The issue is governments look at 4 year terms and ways to put short term band aids on problem rather than looking at these long term solutions

So in short, you wanna stop knife crime in communities, you have to raise the prospects of kids in poor environments at the very least you have to make them feel loved and that they have a chance

It really turns out that having young people grow up with a lot of despair, loneliness, poverty and/or feeling without ability to improve their own lives is a bad thing.

 

[Grays_1890]

Of course it would not be bulletproof, very few things in life. Life has taught me that one thing you can aim for is incremental improvements.

Thats a pretty good starting point, incremental improvements. Think we should aim for that rather then worry that the will always be a core of racists that moan no matter what.

Get the feeling that some people in this country want everyone to think, feel and vote they will. Life has taught me that never happens. But trying to make things generally better is a noble endeavour. Should we not even try for that.

Swam in the sea yesterday against my better judgement. I want to see the water companies pump no untreated sewage in the sea, not going to happen. So I will have to settle for incremental improvements.

The alternative is to just let everything get worse otherwise. I voted Labour not because they will cure all the problems but they will in view make things better or less worse then the Conservatives.

Don't worry about what a minority of idiots think, but every government department should be looking to make things better whether it is immigration or environment or education. Well thats my view anyway.

Yeh and I agree with alot and most of that for sure and I would hope their are measures in place and continue to be so to stop criminals entering the country.

But my point remains that if, like yesterday a 2nd generational immigrant from Cardiff, who I assume came from law abiding parents, that net does not catch everyone for the reason I mentioned, sick people come from literally anywhere.

 

[Grays_1890]

It really turns out that having young people grow up with a lot of despair, loneliness, poverty and/or feeling without ability to improve their own lives is a bad thing.

Yeh for sure. Its also about society messages including the post commentary to come out of this kind of tragedy, if you keep telling a demographic of people that they are good for nothing and there is no hope, you get alot of that.

I have a good friend who does alot of social work in South London, one of the capitals of knife crime here and its the same thing there, these kids are not born to be killers with knives but the messages that surround them are negative from early on "you are black, your dads not around, you have not future, you will just be like him" that makes them easy prey for gangs. It goes a long way to forming the minds of the kids,

Not to go too deep and left field, I think the schools system needs reform for these hotspots, kids need attainment targets that apply to them, you know from an age kids who will thrive academically and those that don't have the aptitude or care for it so why not reform the system so that rather than French, Shakespeare and Science have a futures pathway which gets kids ready for life and work. Get kids to feel the rewards of what it means to earn and have money in their pockets, kids love rewarding and stuff thats attainable so have something that does that within their skills or desires. I don't think work experience or cheap as chips work schemes post school is enough. Yeh it would be long and it would be complex (it should be) but kids deserve more than being taught archaic subjects that won't have a bearing on their lives when they leave the class, thats if they even turn up

 

[Gutter Boy]

Its tough because its a domestic weapon but I think we have to do more for social and mental health at a young age. The Tories literally cut to shreds funding for community support and social outreach and also policing so its a double threat.

I was watching an old Anthony Bourdain show and he was in Glasgow after they turned it around up there and its a long term vision thing where ultimately you have to raise the prospects of kids over a long period of time and change the ever pumped up narrative that the only prospect for them is one of crime and gangs. The issue is governments look at 4 year terms and ways to put short term band aids on problem rather than looking at these long term solutions

So in short, you wanna stop knife crime in communities, you have to raise the prospects of kids in poor environments at the very least you have to make them feel loved and that they have a chance

I was going to write similar. You can never solve knife crime (unlike gun crime) because humans have always needed sharp tools (mainly to eat) and always will. It was as likely a steak knife from his college canteen as it was something illegal.

Targeted ones/crimes of passion you will never stop. The one in Kent seems to be something like this - jealousy, revenge etc.

And the way to minimise mental health and terrorism related ones are by reducing poverty and funding mental health services, so troubled individuals can be treated/properly supported when their problems are first identified as children. But we've been doing the opposite on both those fronts for a long time.

 

[LutonSpurs]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1818247564237721992

For those who used an innocent 17 year olds name and potentially put his life at risk I hope you can come here and retract and apologise. We don't know if he is real or was invented by a Russian bot. Regardless its disgusting to spread false news.

If people can remember the Boston Marathon bombing and the reddit sleuths who literally destroyed lives by doing this brick then you may have cause for introspection.

Marky though. Is an unrepentent racist liar.

 

[spurspinter1]

Steff has contributed a lot more to making conversations around difficult topics possible and useful than most on this board.

If Mark wanted to engage in an actual thoughtful debate he could have, you know, done that. He's still free to. He can literally do that any time he pleases. Whenever.

It's not on everyone else to respond to inflammatory brick in a thoughtful way. A meaningful conversation takes at least two people trying to have a meaningful conversation.

Arguably my approach / response isn't helpful but going from being shocked and empathetic to using it for scoring points is par for the course. Whatever approach is taken it'll be the same outcome.

As inevitably as a rat will spread diseases and then scuttle away in to the darkness, it'll be the same with Marky dropping in some unsubstantiated inflammatory memes which inevitably get debunked and he goes silent until the next time. Rinse repeat, no discussion to be had.


It does take gall to be an English person furious about foreigners coming in to "our" country, as we do happen to have a little bit of a precedent for doing the same albeit in a slightly different manner - The difference is unlike the majority of immigrants trying to make a life for themselves, we instead inflicted oppressive and brutal regimes, I guess that's okay because it's in the past.

I can never really understand the notion of "everybody has to stay in the country they are from measured by what the deal is at this exact point in time". Must be a pretty sad ambition to have for the world in which everyone has to remain where they are..

 

[parklane1]

We live in a sick society where it's pretty much every man for himself - more more more, everyone wants to be rich and famous. It doesn't add up. Something needs to change.

Sorry for cutting your post down to just the above, there have been both good and bad points made by some in this discussion for sure but you have got it spot on by saying that.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Steff you know I love you.

But and I don't know because I try not to watch the news. But what was it that Mark wrote that was inflammatory?

OK it was only referencing people of colour and as I often hear child abuse is usually instigated by white people. I would not class a post referencing white people doing child abuse crimes as inflammatory but more consider the was an issue that needs addressing.

The does seem to be an issue with sections of our society, but instead of debating it, it seems people want to shut it down straight away by calling it inflammatory.

Tbh I’m normally a very pro free speech guy but I thought his posts were unnecessary and he jumped the gun because the authorities have already said the name being thrown around is false so people should wait for the facts. I do agree to an extent about certain debates being shut down and brushed under the carpet, however I’m not sure why it was brought up now when the bigger issue is knife crime in general. No matter who commits it, it’s a massive problem and we need to try and fix it. I think Grays alluded to the fact that crime will always exist which is true so we will never eradicate it but it happens far too often.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Tbh I’m normally a very pro free speech guy but I thought his posts were unnecessary and he jumped the gun because the authorities have already said the name being thrown around is false so people should wait for the facts. I do agree to an extent about certain debates being shut down and brushed under the carpet, however I’m not sure why it was brought up now when the bigger issue is knife crime in general. No matter who commits it, it’s a massive problem and we need to try and fix it. I think Grays alluded to the fact that crime will always exist which is true so we will never eradicate it but it happens far too often.

Well if the government would release more detailed figures on crimes committed, by which members of society. Then I guess our great thinkers at Universities the lecturers who so influence policy think tanks. They could give a full picture then we could create laws to better suit the country.

We had a lot enter from Hong Kong in the last 2 years, would be interested in the crimes commited and how much social housing they have used.

It would then be helpful for the government going forward when making policies.

We know a couple from Hong Kong who live in Brighton and they are absolutely wonderful. Did not bat an eye lid when I asked for a knife and falk. I can't use chop sticks, never could but now I just blame the Parkinson's haha.

 

[braineclipse]

Yeh for sure. Its also about society messages including the post commentary to come out of this kind of tragedy, if you keep telling a demographic of people that they are good for nothing and there is no hope, you get alot of that.

I have a good friend who does alot of social work in South London, one of the capitals of knife crime here and its the same thing there, these kids are not born to be killers with knives but the messages that surround them are negative from early on "you are black, your dads not around, you have not future, you will just be like him" that makes them easy prey for gangs. It goes a long way to forming the minds of the kids,

Not to go too deep and left field, I think the schools system needs reform for these hotspots, kids need attainment targets that apply to them, you know from an age kids who will thrive academically and those that don't have the aptitude or care for it so why not reform the system so that rather than French, Shakespeare and Science have a futures pathway which gets kids ready for life and work. Get kids to feel the rewards of what it means to earn and have money in their pockets, kids love rewarding and stuff thats attainable so have something that does that within their skills or desires. I don't think work experience or cheap as chips work schemes post school is enough. Yeh it would be long and it would be complex (it should be) but kids deserve more than being taught archaic subjects that won't have a bearing on their lives when they leave the class, thats if they even turn up

For me that's part of the frustration with the responses to stuff like this. The people who shout the loudest about immigrant crimes often also align with political parties that are less interested at getting to some of those root causes of these issues. Making the problem worse twice over while also being racist about it is some combo.