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Repetitive bickering and point scoring about money and our transfer policy

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

jimmyb said:
Seriously.......you want to use that as your analogy? It's not obvious why a family that has taken £500 million out of their club over the past 8 years doesn't receive credit? It's not obvious that the reasons why Man Utd are successful have little to do with the Glazers and almost everything to do with what was already in place before they got there?

Not your finest hour, mate!
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Are they still the top club in England?

For all the stick they get, at least they have backed Fergie in the transfer market despite fears that they would ruin the club. Remember the United fans chasing them away when they left Old Trafford for the first time?
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

charlietheyid said:
Feared? Of Bale maybe. Everybody knows we cant start and finish seasons.

On the balance we have not achieved anything so far. Nothing. So you might be happy, but I want us to finish above arsenal, just ones or is that asking too much?
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Yes, feared.

Read any other club's main forum before we play them. I'm not just talking about this season. I'm talking about the past three or four seasons. Phrases like "I'll be thrilled with a point" abound. Red Cafe, for instance, before and after our 1-1 draw with Utd at the Lane. Don't believe me? Then take it from the horse's mouth:

Rio Ferdinand: "Before the game we would have taken a point". 12 years ago, before Levy took over, you would never...never...have heard a Man Utd player say such a thing about a trip to Spurs.

You claim that we have achieved nothing so far. Well, that depends entirely on your definition of "nothing". If you mean trophies, then you would have a point (notwithstanding the 2008 Carling Cup win). But that would be an incredibly narrow definition of achievement, IMO. Me? I'd define achievement more in terms of a journey. Of progress.

And no one could argue anything other than that Spurs has made massive progress in Levy's time at the club.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

billyiddo said:
considering we aren't on a level with United Chelsea and City (or even Arsenal) i don't think we can claim to be a 'top club' at the moment - until we can compete on a financial level with them on a consistent basis then we are firmly in the 'best of the rest' category and operating at that level means we need to go about our business in a different way. you can't seriously be holding our transfer operations up to those of clubs with far greater financial clout and asking why we are doing things differently to them?
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Fine. But some posters rarely actually say, you know what, Levy got that wrong there. There's always an explanation or an excuse, we don't know the full story etc.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Jurgen the German said:
Are they still the top club in England?

For all the stick they get, at least they have backed Fergie in the transfer market despite fears that they would ruin the club. Remember the United fans chasing them away when they left Old Trafford for the first time?
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Indeed. Still the top club in England.

But because of what the Glazers have done? What they've contributed? No. It's because of what was already there. Principally Fergie. But also a massive financial advantage over all but a couple of financially doped clubs.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Jurgen the German said:
He deserves praise for being partly responsible for where we are today. The big thing for me is, what are Levy's/Enic's long term plans for the club. Do they have the nous or whatever adjective you care to describe to take us to the next level. I get that things may stall a bit for the next few years until the stadium is built, but will Levy prepared to take a gamble on a striker for example? Even if the price is slightly higher than we would normally pay?
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two top 4 finishes alongside a few 5th place finishes recently whilst being at a rather big disadvantage financially when compared to our rivals would suggest to me that if the financial gap was closed then Enic/Levy would have a great chance of providing whoever the manager is at the time with the tools to improve on that.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

jimmyb said:
Indeed. Still the top club in England.

But because of what the Glazers have done? What they've contributed? No. It's because of what was already there. Principally Fergie. But also a massive financial advantage over all but a couple of financially doped clubs.
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Of course I would agree a lot of it is down to Fergie. All I'm saying is a lot of people predicted the Glazers would be terrible for Man United, don't hear anything about them anymore really do you? Plenty of people have took over big clubs and done a tinkle poor job, look at Liverpool for example in recent years.
 
Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

ArcspacE said:
None of the above - I'm suggesting there is so much more to our finances (knoweldge/information wise) than is published in those pdfs

Unless you are intimately involved witht the club (which I sincerely doubt you are, anymore than an active participant on the skyscraper forums) - there is abosolutely NO WAY you can conslclusively state what we can and cannot afford
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You have me confused with someone else.

I haven't made any claims as to what we can or cannot afford to spend on players.

I've merely backed up the claim that, over the years, the published accounts prove that the club has spent what it earns. It isn't accumulating or syphoning off cash.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

ArcspacE said:
30 mins ago

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showth...ason-2012-13**&p=354688&viewfull=1#post354688


And whilwe you're at it

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showth...ason-2012-13**&p=354668&viewfull=1#post354668
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I've already stated that I think we might see a net spend of £15-20m in the summer considering the tv money, that I would be surprised if we spend more. I could see us spending less.

I did not think that first post was an answer to me. In that case I think you should be more sensitive.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

I can't believe I read through the last 4 pages of this brick.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Jurgen the German said:
Fine. But some posters rarely actually say, you know what, Levy got that wrong there. There's always an explanation or an excuse, we don't know the full story etc.
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well, imv, there are very few examples of instances where it is a black and white case of it being a purely an individual mistake - mostly, i find, that people just try to explain the situation so as to avoid the whole blame game that some seem intent on playing.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Rorschach said:
I can't believe I read through the last 4 pages of this brick.
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Thanks for that comment. I only skimmed a page and a bit. I like what JimmyB's saying. The rest, pffff, just seems like arguing for the sake of arguing and it's long past the point of tiresome. Surely we're better than that.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

billyiddo said:
well, imv, there are very few examples of instances where it is a black and white case of it being a purely an individual mistake - mostly, i find, that people just try to explain the situation so as to avoid the whole blame game that some seem intent on playing.
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Well people aren't being consistent then because those same people had/have no problem blaming people they don't like in other situations.

As Arc said, it's ok to say someone made a mistake.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Jurgen the German said:
Are they still the top club in England?

For all the stick they get, at least they have backed Fergie in the transfer market despite fears that they would ruin the club. Remember the United fans chasing them away when they left Old Trafford for the first time?
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Tottenham and United have had pretty much the same net spend over the last 8 years. Yet Levy hasn't backed his Manager and Glazier has?
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Modric THFC said:
Tottenham and United have had pretty much the same net spend over the last 8 years. Yet Levy hasn't backed his Manager and Glazier has?
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Ah see - what I think and I may be wrong but im of the opinion that, basing it on your comparison anyways, Fergie has ALL the say in which players to buy - our Managers do not (I believe that to be true - some may not)... thats where backing the Manager comes in. I guess it depends what your definition of 'backing the manager' is
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

DHSF said:
Ah see - what I think and I may be wrong but im of the opinion that, basing it on your comparison anyways, Fergie has ALL the say in which players to buy - our Managers do not (I believe that to be true - some may not)... thats where backing the Manager comes in. I guess it depends what your definition of 'backing the manager' is
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True, but Fergie has been there for many years, our manager has not.


On the one hand, if you don't buy who the manager wants, his failure might be partly due to your choices.


On the other hand, the club will be here for a long time, the manager might not, even if he is successful.


I can't work out with hand i agree with more.
 
Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

DHSF said:
Ah see - what I think and I may be wrong but im of the opinion that, basing it on your comparison anyways, Fergie has ALL the say in which players to buy - our Managers do not (I believe that to be true - some may not)... thats where backing the Manager comes in. I guess it depends what your definition of 'backing the manager' is
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I think United have been severly short changed under the Glazers and thought it was ridiculous that anyone in football is sticking up for the Glazers.
They have taken 550m out of the club during a period when their net transfer spend is just under 90m.
 
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