Politics, politics, politics

[Gutter Boy]

I like that the president is seperate, but they are still accountable to memeber states and an elected parliment. Democracy is flawed in many ways too, as was Tony Benn's 5 tests. Chruchill's missives on the limits of democracy are just as interesting.

Benn said you must ask people in power these 5 questions

“What power have you got?”
“Where did you get it from?”
“In whose interests do you use it?”
“To whom are you accountable?”
“How do we get rid of you?”

For me the EU completely fails 5 and 4, and is wobbly on 2 and 3

 

[DTA]

Benn said you must ask people in power these 5 questions

“What power have you got?”
“Where did you get it from?”
“In whose interests do you use it?”
“To whom are you accountable?”
“How do we get rid of you?”

For me the EU completely fails 5 and 4, and is wobbly on 2 and 3

Where as the UK democracy is shaky on 2,3 and 4.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Benn said you must ask people in power these 5 questions

“What power have you got?”
“Where did you get it from?”
“In whose interests do you use it?”
“To whom are you accountable?”
“How do we get rid of you?”

For me the EU completely fails 5 and 4, and is wobbly on 2 and 3

Fair questions. Democracy has negative impacts too however. Dilution, lowest common denominator policy, political apathy not to offend anyone, lobbying and those that don't are not represented etc etc. Important to recognise these failings too, and having some elements of governance that are one step removed from democractic problems makes perfect sense.

 

[Rorschach]

Better get double digging the garden then

Prepper

 

[Parklaner81]

Benn said you must ask people in power these 5 questions

“What power have you got?”
“Where did you get it from?”
“In whose interests do you use it?”
“To whom are you accountable?”
“How do we get rid of you?”

For me the EU completely fails 5 and 4, and is wobbly on 2 and 3

You don't have to look too hard to see how no.5 is playing out...

 

[monkeybarry]

Can we remove the president(s)? Change the ideology? Nope

The EU fails nearly all Tony Benn's 5 tests of a democracy

He is elected by the European Parliament, who are elected by your vote, so yes you can affect who is President.

 

[Gutter Boy]

He is elected by the European Parliament, who are elected by your vote, so yes you can affect who is President.

You can affect who is Queen/King by very targeted breeding and/or regicide.

 

[parklane1]

The majority will blame everyone else, it is already starting.

They usually do, no matter what side they are on.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

People's opposition to Abbott has nothing to do with the issue and has everything to do with her being Abbott. All she said was, is this nation opposed to the death penalty being imposed on our nationals or not? All she said was that our policy should be consistent, that there should not be exceptions. However, because it was her, in the minds of some, it's suspect.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I have a question to ask of the Brexitiers.

If you are wrong and we end up considerably worse off, will you hold your hands up and say my bad I fudged up.... We should never have left?

Because if the reverse happens I will happily admit I was wrong... In fact If Brexit happens I really really want to be wrong. I will joyfully admit it.

Just wondering if there is any responsibility national pride to your positions?

A quick question, kind of reversing this. If Trump invites the UK to join the USA as the 51st state and assures everyone that we'd be £500 a year each richer, would you go for it?

 

[Baleforce]

A quick question, kind of reversing this. If Trump invites the UK to join the USA as the 51st state and assures everyone that we'd be £500 a year each richer, would you go for it?

Not under Trump, but if this hypothetical had been offered under a robust liberal administration (in an environment that suggested it would stay that way) I'd certainly be tempted.

I'd rather be in the EU though.

 

[monkeybarry]

You can affect who is Queen/King by very targeted breeding and/or regicide.

But that wouldn't be democratic
Voting is.

 

[monkeybarry]

A quick question, kind of reversing this. If Trump invites the UK to join the USA as the 51st state and assures everyone that we'd be £500 a year each richer, would you go for it?

No. I like healthcare, annual leave and job security.
We would be a brick US - you know, the ones you can't think of when you have to name all 52

 

[DTA]

A quick question, kind of reversing this. If Trump invites the UK to join the USA as the 51st state and assures everyone that we'd be £500 a year each richer, would you go for it?

No, but becoming the 51st state is very different from Remaining part of a union that we helped to form.

 

[Gutter Boy]

No. I like healthcare, annual leave and job security.
We would be a brick US - you know, the ones you can't think of when you have to name all 52

So no economic calculation is worth you surrendering those unique local values that are important to you?

 

[Gutter Boy]

No, but becoming the 51st state is very different from Remaining part of a union that we helped to form.

It's still being bound by ideology you don't support and can't change, for the sake of a few hundred quid.

51st state, 28th country - there's not much difference. Except American states have a bit more freedom over their own tax and spend decisions.

 

[Grays_1890]

No, but becoming the 51st state is very different from Remaining part of a union that we helped to form.

True but it would just be like joining the EU again like we did from the start no?

 

[DTA]

It's still being bound by ideology you don't support and can't change, for the sake of a few hundred quid.

51st state, 28th country - there's not much difference. Except American states have a bit more freedom over their own tax and spend decisions.

There is a huge difference. Huge

 

[DTA]

True but it would just be like joining the EU again like we did from the start no?

No not really. Maybe it would be closer to what we will have to do when we want to join the club again in a few years time... And we have to go back and ask ever so politely if we could join again please.... And this time we promise not be so annoying and let a bunch of tax Dodgers tosskers try to commit a patricide on their own nation.

 

[Gutter Boy]

There is a huge difference. Huge

Not really. American states can set their own VAT, whereas we can't. We're forbidden to do wealth redistribution by say putting 30% or 40% VAT on luxury goods