• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics

DTA said:
Even you Brexitiers you can't possibly want this kind of Brexit?

It's destroying our country guys...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...it-brexit-negotiations?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Click to expand...

Is not really impartial reporting it is the guardian. The same as the mail plays to its readership so does the Guardian. If the worst happened and we get Brexit and the world does not end how do you think the Guardian will report it, they will look for every negative while the papers who believed in Brexit will report on the positives.

I believe it is called confirmation bias and I believe you know it. Also the mail are a bit like Corbyn(they would love that ha) in that they did not actually take a stance on brexit, in fact they ran a lot of scare stories from project fear and had a lot of editorials from Osborne at the time. I know because I was reading all the papers and could not believe the stitch up going on even in so called right wing newspapers.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Is not really impartial reporting it is the guardian. The same as the mail plays to its readership so does the Guardian. If the worst happened and we get Brexit and the world does not end how do you think the Guardian will report it, they will look for every negative while the papers who believed in Brexit will report on the positives.

I believe it is called confirmation bias and I believe you know it. Also the mail are a bit like Corbyn(they would love that ha) in that they did not actually take a stance on brexit, in fact they ran a lot of scare stories from project fear and had a lot of editorials from Osborne at the time. I know because I was reading all the papers and could not believe the stitch up going on even in so called right wing newspapers.
Click to expand...

It goes beyond editorial bias... There are actual quotes there.

Like I said even if you support leaving the EU surely you can't support how this shower of sh#t are doing it?

Not if you care for this country even a little.
 
For me the big mistake they've made was not publicly starting proceedings for joining the TPP.

It's a bit easier negotiating for custody of your kids when you've got a new hot young thing by your side, rather than turning up like you've been sleeping in your car
 
Are the biggest allys of Remainers, hardlilne Brexiteers?

Sounds ridiculous, yet if you're fixated by having Cake it becomes impossible to serve up Bread. Especially when the Bread you're getting now is better Bread. The outcome of this pushback against the EU is that we keep the same Bread.

Had Brexiteers settled for a softer exit, then I think Brexit would occur. Thankfully they are not - with good reason - and the logical conclusion is we remain while the right wing blame the 'draconian' EU. Which of course is another nonsense as the EU have their working rules and principles, why would they possibly reinvent the rules of their club for an ex-member!?
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
Are the biggest allys of Remainers, hardlilne Brexiteers?

Sound ridicolous but...if you're fixated by having Cake it becomes impossible to serve up Bread. Especially when the Bread you're getting now is better Bread. The outcome of this Brexit nonsense is that we keep the same Bread.

Had Brexiteers settled for a softer exit, then I think Brexit would occur. Thankfully they are not - with good reason - and the logical conclusion is we remain while the right wing blame the 'draconian' EU. Which of course is another nonsense as they have working rules and principles, why would they reinvent their club for an ex-member?
Click to expand...

I don't think there is any way the UK will officially remain in the EU. But I do think a soft-Brexit will happen, as a Norway deal can be reached very quickly and there will be little time for anything else. Parliament won't allow us to crash out of the EU wit no-deal imo, unless May is toppled and Rees-Mogg or some other like-minded nut becomes PM. But then I think Parliament would produce a no-confidence vote in the government (they need to get 2/3rds now, is that right?) and then there will be a general election. So May being toppled and a GE win for the Tories led by a hero of hard-Brexit is the only way it will happen, and I don't think it's likely.

A Norway-esque fudge. Which might turn out ok.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Are the biggest allys of Remainers, hardlilne Brexiteers?

Sound ridicolous but...if you're fixated by having Cake it becomes impossible to serve up Bread. Especially when the Bread you're getting now is better Bread. The outcome of this Brexit nonsense is that we keep the same Bread.

Had Brexiteers settled for a softer exit, then I think Brexit would occur. Thankfully they are not - with good reason - and the logical conclusion is we remain while the right wing blame the 'draconian' EU. Which of course is another nonsense as they have working rules and principles, why would they reinvent their club for an ex-member?
Click to expand...

Equally had the EU been more cordial and malleable, they might have stemmed the ever growing tide of Euroscepticism, whereas now they've broadened and strengthen the general level of hostility towards the priesthood.

Any rejoin movement is going to have to wait a lot longer than a generation for any benefit of doubt to return.
 
the dza said:
I don't think there is any way the UK will officially remain in the EU. But I do think a soft-Brexit will happen, as a Norway deal can be reached very quickly and there will be little time for anything else. Parliament won't allow us to crash out of the EU wit no-deal imo, unless May is toppled and Rees-Mogg or some other like-minded nut becomes PM. But then I think Parliament would produce a no-confidence vote in the government (they need to get 2/3rds now, is that right?) and then there will be a general election. So May being toppled and a GE win for the Tories led by a hero of hard-Brexit is the only way it will happen, and I don't think it's likely.

A Norway-esque fudge. Which might turn out ok.
Click to expand...

A Corbyn Brexit will be much harder than a May one. He's had his sights set of this moment for 40 years.
 
Last edited:
Gutter Boy said:
The EU already split the 4 freedoms for their association agreements with Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia.

I've felt for a while that the Ukrainian model was the only way to square this to everyone's satisfaction.
Click to expand...

The EU could play nice, they could be more amenable to compromise, they could find a deal that works for all involved.

They havent so much as entertained the idea.

I feel right now they are just trying to box us into a Norway style agreement, whereby we are neutered and basically nothing else changes.

On which front, frankly, Id rather hard Brexit. In fact Im becoming more into the idea the longer things go on.

Dont get me wrong, I know itll be a disaster, but - IMHO - it could well be a necessary step toward genuine change in this country.

Things will get bad, people will demand change, genuinely more radical and driven people will rise up into politics and then - well couldnt things get a lot more interesting? Especially as it would be effectively starting with a clean slate.

Now think how that sort of process would go as an EU bitch, it wouldnt be revolution/evolution it would be a coup. Full of bad temper and ill feeling.
 
Gutter Boy said:
A Corbyn Brexit will be much harder than a May one. He's had his sights set of this moment for 40 years.
Click to expand...

I don't think so. Labour are for 'a'/'the' customs union right now and their manifesto rules out a 'no-deal' Brexit. Corbyn (or the left of Labour) have no issue with EU regulations regarding employment rights, the environment or other social protections. That makes aligning with the EU much easier than it does for the Rees-Mogg/Gove wing of the Tory party. In other words, the most Eurosceptic Labour MPs are already quite happy to do a deal that aligns with many existing EU regulations. Then a huge chunk of the Parliamentary party, members and trade unions want to stay in the single-market.

The Rees-Mogg cranks want a hard Brexit so that we become a low-regulation economy with little in the way of worker's rights. Corbyn isn't cut from that cloth, quite the opposite.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DTA
the dza said:
I don't think so. Labour are for 'a'/'the' customs union right now and their manifesto rules out a 'no-deal' Brexit. Corbyn (or the left of Labour) have no issue with EU regulations regarding employment rights, the environment or other social protections. That makes aligning with the EU much easier than it does for the Rees-Mogg/Gove wing of the Tory party. In other words, the most Eurosceptic Labour MPs are already quite happy to do a deal that aligns with many existing EU regulations. Then a huge chunk of the Parliamentary party, members and trade unions want to stay in the single-market.

The Rees-Mogg cranks want a hard Brexit so that we become a low-regulation economy with little in the way of worker's rights. Corbyn isn't cut from that cloth, quite the opposite.
Click to expand...

That's just Corbyn mollifying the Blarites because he knows he wont ever have to deliver it

It's the competition and state aid laws (as well as FoM) that Corbyn is so fundamentally opposed to, and they are tied in with the regulations too. He wants to be much more interventionist that the EU will ever allow. So the same gripe as Rees Mogg, but towards polar opposite ends
 
Gutter Boy said:
That's just Corbyn mollifying the Blarites because he knows he wont ever have to deliver it

It's the competition and state aid laws (as well as FoM) that Corbyn is so fundamentally opposed to, and they are tied in with the regulations too.
Click to expand...

But it isn't Blairites, it's trade unions and Labour members. Corbyn isn't a dictator. One minute you talk about 80% of the population voting for what's in the party manifestos, the next minute you dismiss that in Labour's manifesto, they explicitly rule out a 'no-deal' Brexit -- you can't have it both ways. Corbyn is not 'Brexit at all costs', and whilst he has very little interest in the wants of Blairites, he does have a lot of interest in the wants of unions like Unite (and the leadership of said unions, such as Len McCluskey).
 
  • Like
Reactions: DTA
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back