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Politics, politics, politics

SpurMeUp said:
They are relatively simple questions. If you wish to duck them, I take it you don't have answers. Which is fine. We are not the Government. But whats funny is people who wish to remain are called Remoaners, yet those who are inclined to leave seem to moan about whats wrong, without offering workable solutions.
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You keep going on about splits, I dont know why - its irrelevant in the new scenario. And that is the point.

You keep going on about workers/numbers - Ive already expressed thoughts on this.

I dont know what you want, because as I said its not like you are actually appreciating the points being made. Pointing that out is not ducking the question.
 
Parklaner81 said:
It's funny you say that, I was in Cork in August and my taxi driver to the hotel immediately engaged me in conversation about Brexit. He quite passionately believed Ireland should be exiting with us. I'm pretty sure he's in the minority over there though (he admitted as much himself)...!
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Taxi drivers are the most perceptive people in any country.

The Irish are a lovely bunch and I am very fond of them but the only reason they are seen as pro the EU is because they are outward looking nation but like Britain they would have nothing to fear from being outside the EU. The pro EU feeling actually stems from the anti Westminster feelings they have. Which is odd because London cares far more about the Irish then the cnuts in Brussels ever will.

I am slightly biased as I have extended Irish family who I adore, prefer the wife's family to her a lot of the time. But Ireland I always felt should be united and I would also be happy for the Scots to fcuk off, that would make me really happy as I do not actually like those chip on the shoulder tossers.

Brexit will be a success if we actually get to decide our own laws again no matter what the economy does, but so many in this country from the established liberal elite all the way through to the civil service are so intent on stopping and destroying it that they have given fuel to the far right and people like those Britain First freaks. That no matter what happens in the future, fire and fight has been created in the hearts of this centuries freedom fighters and the anti democratic EU is the bad guy. May they all burn in the hell that the wish to create for others.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I don't think its unreasonable. But I think you're missing the point. The real issue is public opinion vs the economy and industry. Nurses, road sweepers, fruit pickers, people to serving coffee in starbucks, nursing home workers, unskilled manual building laborers who get the worst jobs...where will the people to do these jobs come from? The UK? Should we pay more for our coffee and nursing homes to pay UK people more to work there, people who probably don't actually really want to work in these jobs anyway?

My second point is, if we need some immigration, and currently we have 50-50 appx with EU and non-EU, what great chances will we see in real terms post Brexit, and is it a price worth paying? Will it simply be a higher percentage from rest of the world as @nayimfromthehalfwayline suggests, or will we also cut the numbers and create a shortage of labor?

In essence simple questions.
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Lots of people do pointless jobs, because work is an opiate. If we refocus towards people on doing valuable jobs for society, that would be better for everyone. The people who should be doing those jobs are currently the ones dossing around pretending finance and sales are important.

Mass immigration also brings huge strains to infrastructure. We need to build a city the size of Leeds every 2 years to sustain the influx of extra people currently arriving. That's just not sustainable.
 
This sovereignty thing is more complicated than I thought. It turns out that:

1. Not sovereign: agreeing rules with our partners.

2. Sovereign: letting them decide the rules without us and then “aligning” ourselves to whatever they decide.
 
Apparently, Heidi Allen was crying in the commons today, after hearing the plight of one of Frank Field's constituents, and their struggles with Universal Credit.
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https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25348/heidi_allen/south_cambridgeshire/divisions?policy=6670

On 4 Jun 2015: Heidi Allen voted in favour of proposed spending cuts and changes to the welfare system


On 20 Jul 2015: Heidi Allen voted to reduce the household benefit cap, to freeze the rate of many working-age benefits


On 15 Sep 2015: Heidi Allen voted to reduce the amounts people are paid in tax credits


On 27 Oct 2015: Heidi Allen voted in favour of reducing the amount people are paid in tax credits.


On 6 Jan 2016: Heidi Allen voted in favour of cutting universal credit benefits for many people in paid work


On 26 May 2016: Heidi Allen voted in favour of repealing the Human Rights Act 1998


On 8 Jun 2016: Heidi Allen voted for reductions in benefits for disabled and ill claimants who are deemed capable of work.


On 20 Jul 2016: Heidi Allen voted for cuts in housing benefit for recipients in supported housing.
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Instead of crocodile tears, maybe try voting against the policies that hurt the poorest the most.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...d919066cd815ae#block-5a26d4414cd919066cd815ae

The DUP leader Arlene Foster has said the text of the Irish border deal came as a “big shock” when she saw it yesterday.

In an interview with RTE News about to be broadcast she said her party only saw the text late yesterday morning as British and Irish officials were tying up loose ends ahead of Theresa May’s lunch meeting with Jean Claude Juncker.

“Once we saw the text, we knew it was not going to be acceptable,” she told RTE’s Northern Ireland correspondent Tommy Gorman.

She told him the DUP had been asking for the text for five weeks.

She also said she had a very open conversation with May after the DUP press conference in which she said they could sign not up to anything that would mean a border in the Irish sea.

She told her “it could have been dealt with differently”.

Foster said she had been told by British negotiators that the Irish government did not want her to see the text ahead of yesterday’s crunch meeting in Brussels.


“We are told that the Irish government prevented it coming to us.


Gorman asked: “Who told you that?”


She replied: “The British negotiating team”.

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:D
 
the dza said:
Apparently, Heidi Allen was crying in the commons today, after hearing the plight of one of Frank Field's constituents, and their struggles with Universal Credit.
____________________
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25348/heidi_allen/south_cambridgeshire/divisions?policy=6670

On 4 Jun 2015: Heidi Allen voted in favour of proposed spending cuts and changes to the welfare system


On 20 Jul 2015: Heidi Allen voted to reduce the household benefit cap, to freeze the rate of many working-age benefits


On 15 Sep 2015: Heidi Allen voted to reduce the amounts people are paid in tax credits


On 27 Oct 2015: Heidi Allen voted in favour of reducing the amount people are paid in tax credits.


On 6 Jan 2016: Heidi Allen voted in favour of cutting universal credit benefits for many people in paid work


On 26 May 2016: Heidi Allen voted in favour of repealing the Human Rights Act 1998


On 8 Jun 2016: Heidi Allen voted for reductions in benefits for disabled and ill claimants who are deemed capable of work.


On 20 Jul 2016: Heidi Allen voted for cuts in housing benefit for recipients in supported housing.
________________________

Instead of crocodile tears, maybe try voting against the policies that hurt the poorest the most.
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How do we do that? Are you paying for it?
 
scaramanga said:
Cool, if you're paying for it, I'm in.
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It's no problem. I put it on Arlene's account. Wherever the Tories found that DUP money, they can find some for the poor people whose plight reduces them to tears in Parliament.

Not that Heidi Allen would vote for that, of course.
 
the dza said:
It's no problem. I put it on Arlene's account. Wherever the Tories found that DUP money, they can find some for the poor people whose plight reduces them to tears in Parliament.

Not that Heidi Allen would vote for that, of course.
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That's cheating - some of that's my money. You're supposed to pay for it all yourself.
 
scaramanga said:
That's cheating - some of that's my money. You're supposed to pay for it all yourself.
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Stop pretending that you are not a good socialist -- you let us all talk sh1t here for free, even flagrant freeloaders like myself.

And you are at least honest with your politics, even though I profoundly disagree with you on the economic side of the argument (on some social issues, we do agree on things, drug policy etc). You don't pretend to give 2 phucks about people worse off than you are and I doubt you'd stand there in Parliament sobbing about it. I have a problem with Heidi Allen crying for the poor whilst being a Tory MP who votes along with the government on policies that hurt those same people. That's just bullsh1t. It' like she's saying "Hey, don't blame me! At least I feel bad about phucking you in the arse!"
 
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the dza said:
Stop pretending you are not a good socialist -- you let us all talk sh1t here for free, even flagrant freeloaders like myself.

And you are at least honest with your politics, even though I profoundly disagree with you on the economic side of the argument (on some social issues, we do agree on things, drug policy etc). You don't pretend to give 2 phucks about people worse off than you are and I doubt you'd stand there in Parliament sobbing about it. I have a problem with Heidi Allen crying for the poor whilst being a Tory MP who votes along with the government on policies that hurt those same people. That's just bullsh1t. It' like she's saying "Hey, don't blame me! At least I feel bad about phucking you in the arse!"
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I slightly disagree.
UK politics is such a loaded whipping machine (daily mail headline of the future) that I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if just did what she was told.

If she really gives a damn, she'll take the party on. She'll highlight the issue and try and effect change.
I can understand why she may not have done so in the past, defying the whip can end you career - but now is a great chance to be a good politician or even just be a cynical career politician and make a name for herself whilst also doing something good.
Anyone that makes a name for themselves in the next few months could easily find themselves in the cabinet (or shadow)....heck, maybe even PM. This govt is weak and feckless.
 
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