Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Despite misgivings over some of his policies and i think he will wreck the economy, I like Corbyn and it is why I will vote for him. Just wish he would stick to his beliefs over the evil EU.
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Despite misgivings over some of his policies and i think he will wreck the economy, I like Corbyn and it is why I will vote for him. Just wish he would stick to his beliefs over the evil EU.
Who said chivalry is dead?
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
So, govt of country that voted to be isolationist has an issue with a country being isolationist....
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I guess farage forgot to deliver the American jobs for British workers memo
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I guess farage forgot to deliver the American jobs for British workers memo
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Him and McDonnell will. They are just as anti-EU as Mogg or Farage. They just have to placate Umunna faction by acting a bit vague.
He let slip this week though that he believes the single market prevents state aid and encourages privatisation, so hinders his manifesto.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Brexit has never been about isolationism. Liam Fox wants to go more neo-liberal, May wants to go more Keynesian and Corbyn wants to go more socialist. None of that is isolationist.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Sorry, I mistyped protectionism
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Post-neo-liberalism isn't a bad thing. It's putting the needs of society ahead of the needs of the economy, rather than the other way round.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
It's a bad thing when you whine about it happening to you because you have a false sense of self importance, a need to create trade deals with other states and an impending distancing and downward direction in trade terms with existing partners
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
We lack a charismatic leader with the vision and aspirations to market it, but the direction of travel is ok.
It's also interesting the lengths that governments/big business have to go to, to pretend that we have "free markets" when it comes to stuff that actually matters, such as aviation, energy production, food production etc. All subsidised and unable to exist without state support, whether it's the USA or Europe. Yet when others want to extrapolate this out a bit more to stop the public getting ripped off at the expense of spivs (by taking public ownership of natural monopolies for example), all we hear is the shrill cry of "but free markets are the bestest!" The vicar's daughter was at this earlier today.
It always has and always will be a mixed economy; the mix has got out of whack over the last 30/40 years and will now, hopefully, correct.
I know Damian Green is a tit, I didn't know he had such a massive drug problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...fight-and-win-next-election-says-damian-green
Damian Green, one of the prime minister’s closest allies in the cabinet, has insisted she will fight the next election, hinting he expects votes for the Lib Dems to deliver a Tory victory.
Green, the first secretary of state and de facto deputy prime minister, appointed by Theresa May after she lost seats at the general election, said May would have “a big record of achievement” by 2022 and the “wrong impression took hold” in the election campaign.
“She’s warm, has a sense of humour, she’s good company and she is, as has been observed, fantastically hardworking and conscientious … The more people see that, the better she will do politically,” he told the Spectator in an interview before the Conservative conference in Manchester this weekend, where the prime minister’s future is likely to come under scrutiny.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...fight-and-win-next-election-says-damian-green
Damian Green, one of the prime minister’s closest allies in the cabinet, has insisted she will fight the next election, hinting he expects votes for the Lib Dems to deliver a Tory victory.
Green, the first secretary of state and de facto deputy prime minister, appointed by Theresa May after she lost seats at the general election, said May would have “a big record of achievement” by 2022 and the “wrong impression took hold” in the election campaign.
“She’s warm, has a sense of humour, she’s good company and she is, as has been observed, fantastically hardworking and conscientious … The more people see that, the better she will do politically,” he told the Spectator in an interview before the Conservative conference in Manchester this weekend, where the prime minister’s future is likely to come under scrutiny.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
I agree. It's astounding that within the last few years, the free market capitalist system was on the brink of collapse. It took massive state intervention/ aid to avoid the western banking system imploding. People and companies bank accounts would have been wiped out acrross Europe and the US. All lending would have ceased causing massive economic stagnation. The known economy would have failed in a number of ways and who knows what the outcome would have been if there had been no state intervention into the credit crisis. People using gold? Anarchy.
Yet as you say, 5 minutes later, the outdated Tory mantra of the Free Market being GHod is rolled out. They know it needs revision, but its their bedrock, their whole premise is built on it.
I hate to sound cliche but I do actually believe in a middle path. Corbyn is almost the other extreme. So entrenched in dogma regarding socialism I wonder if they can be clever enough to find a path that is workable and not some 70s throw back. Both right and left need to look beyond their political philosophies to what actually works. I believe in state ownership and the free market personally. State ownership without competition is not a good thing however, and should be avoided where possible. But for core public services like Trains state owned companies (but run like a private company) makes sense, and why give profits to French companies who run our railways? Moreover, why can't government owned companies make money for the state (us) if they are run as any other private company is?
But...there is an efficiency that free market competition brings. Communism failed in one fundamental way: state bureaucracy ran the economy. It made everything. Sold everything. And failed badly. The rest of Communism wasn't so bad. Education for all. A collective socialist national philosophy. Provisions for everyone. For example free sports, education, free classes for OAPs etc . All things that worked. But at the same time state's or economies have to give people the chance to innovate, prosper and compete. Corbyn needs to emphasise the latter, and if he does he would get elected. If he becomes entrenched in some 'we were right all along' 70s socialist party, he will be dragged down by the establishment machine and fail. Imo
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But the middle path, as you put it, is what Corbyn's Labour Party advocates. They don't want to nationalise the corner shop, but natural monopolies like utilities and rail -- as you say, foreign state owned industries own our utilities anyway! There's nothing far left about that, nor tuition free university and other such policies. They are only far left in the context of 3 or 4 decades of neo-liberal, right-wing dogma, the same as Blair/Clinton/Obama are seen as the centre in that same context. But when you step back from it, they are all still to the right.
As the man himself said:
Corbyn and Labour would simply bring the mixed economy back into a balance that works very well in other European countries and used to be the consensus here before Thatcher/Reagan and the de-regulation of finance took off. That type of mixed economy is the real centre of politics. Nobody who I know who voted for Corbyn is talking about communism or any such nonsense.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
We need state management of the economy. An industrial strategy, balance of payments, nationalised transport and amenities, a 100% renewable energy drive. What we don’t need is state management of society. The big problem with Labour is that they get so interventionist that they want to control every aspect of people’s lives. They build enormous bureaucracies and meddle in everything (jobs for the Guardian readers).
One thing I’m kind of interested in is more 3rd sector delivery. Universities are a good example of this. There are 120 of them. They compete against each other and can go to the wall if they don’t balance the books. But they are all charities, so can’t make profits. I wonder if we could therefore have say half-a-dozen energy providers who are all not-for-profit, rather than a return of British Gas and British Electricity.
One thing I’m kind of interested in is more 3rd sector delivery. Universities are a good example of this. There are 120 of them. They compete against each other and can go to the wall if they don’t balance the books. But they are all charities, so can’t make profits. I wonder if we could therefore have say half-a-dozen energy providers who are all not-for-profit, rather than a return of British Gas and British Electricity.
