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Politics, politics, politics

scaramanga said:
Why don't we just buy tariff-free food from all the countries that have been desperate to trade with us for years? That'll keep prices down.
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I suspect in the short to medium term that is exactly what we will do, focusing on countries whose currency is significantly weaker than GBP.
That is partly what I was talking about re: the make of the UK high Street changing greatly very soon.
We will see a change in products and quality. And also a change in the dynamics of costs - some goods becoming alot cheaper, some alot more expensive and availablity changing.
The EU will be able to carry on as it wishes, we will have to make to choices depending alot more variables than before.

Whether it's good or bad, we'll see. Under a Tory government I suspect bad and a move to US levels of quality but without the litigious culture to pin standards up.
 
Rorschach said:
Why would you not want to govern your own country? Be the masters of your own fate! Leaving the EU complication aside, I honestly I don't understand the reasons why you wouldn't want independence. Educate me.
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I have no problem with independence as such, my issue is that the SNP haven't set out a plan that is viable, in any way.
Their "plan" and the figures it is based on is even more ludicrous than the brexiteers. It makes the bus quote look like genius.

"Leaving the EU complication aside"
Well it's not a complication, it's a fact. You can't leave it aside, SNP tried that with all the uncomfortable facts that they couldn't or didn't want to answer.

Have you looked at the paper the SNP published based on the future on independence?
I have. It basically says, trust us, it will all work out ok, we're Scottish, what can go wrong. It's trumpesqe.

I tell you what, you educate me. You tell me what would be great about Scotland being independent. Bonus marks if you can do it with the SNP plan.
I'm not alone up here in being sick to death of the Indy stuff and people who are obviously not Scottish telling us what to do and what we want based on some loud mouth politicians.

Oh I have a vote which I use at every election, so I do govern and I am master of my countries destiny. Some you win, some you lose. It's called democracy.
 
Hotshot-Tottenham said:
I was only (half) pulling your leg.

It was a glib retort-in-kind.

I'd imagine the non-tariff barriers could well be more of an issue than the tariffs.

I don't think consumers will want a drop, or less transparency in food standards.
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I think consumers should be able to choose, rather than have a diktat from an unelected body tell them what to choose.

I'm fairly sure there are some people who would rather buy cheaper, battery farmed eggs. Going outside the example of food, I'd happily buy a car that didn't pass many of the silly EU safety standards if it meant a better looking car. It would also be nice to choose between a clean floor and a low energy bill.
 
Wow - that's horrific in Catalonia today - police throwing women down stairs by their hair

If the EU had any integrity or relevance left, it would suspend Spain with immediate effect.
 
Robspur12 said:
Sorry GB, I like a lot of your posts but that is complete nonsense. I have worked with EU institutions, identities are not suppressed. The issues in Spain are rooted in the treatment of the Catalan people under Franco and their dissatisfaction with the current Spanish Government - nothing to do with the EU. Neither the Catalans nor the Scots have indicated that they want to leave the EU.
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The EU is fundamentally opposed to nationalism and national identity, so it will always support larger multi-nation states like Spain, Belgium or the UK over secessionist movements. It wants power to keep moving upwards, not renewed sovereignty for nations
 
Gutter Boy said:
The EU is fundamentally opposed to nationalism and national identity, so it will always support larger multi-nation states like Spain, Belgium or the UK over secessionist movements. It wants power to keep moving upwards, not renewed sovereignty for nations
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You want the EU to dictate to a national government what they can and can't do....
 
scaramanga said:
I think consumers should be able to choose, rather than have a diktat from an unelected body tell them what to choose.

I'm fairly sure there are some people who would rather buy cheaper, battery farmed eggs. Going outside the example of food, I'd happily buy a car that didn't pass many of the silly EU safety standards if it meant a better looking car. It would also be nice to choose between a clean floor and a low energy bill.
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It is not only about the consumers is it? What about the chickens themselves?
 
Gutter Boy said:
The EU is fundamentally opposed to nationalism and national identity, so it will always support larger multi-nation states like Spain, Belgium or the UK over secessionist movements. It wants power to keep moving upwards, not renewed sovereignty for nations
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No evidence whatsoever for that claim GB. As I said, I have worked with EU institutions where representatives of other member states are present and I have been pleasantly surprised about how well countries with different national identities, languages and even religions work well together with mutual respect. This is about individual nation states and their own internal struggles. Spain has had separatist factions long before it became part of the Eurozone.
 
Surely the EU gives potential for Scotland, Catalonia, Basque etc? With the EU this small potential states, don't need Madrid or London making decisions. If they are in the EU they have the protection and support with more local government.

Madrid made a big bobo. Had they just let people mess around with a vote that didn't mean anything, this would have passed by without fanfare. The drafted in police should have only had orders to deal with violence. Instead they have created a greater sense of nationalism a them against us by trying to close down polling stations and inflict brute force on passive people. Madrid shoudl have just said if you wish to waste your time with an illegal vote go ahead.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Surely the EU gives potential for Scotland, Catalonia, Basque etc? With the EU this small potential states, don't need Madrid or London making decisions. If they are in the EU they have the protection and support with more local government.

Madrid made a big bobo. Had they just let people mess around with a vote that didn't mean anything, this would have passed by without fanfare. The drafted in police should have only had orders to deal with violence. Instead they have created a greater sense of nationalism a them against us by trying to close down polling stations and inflict brute force on passive people. Madrid shoudl have just said if you wish to waste your time with an illegal vote go ahead.
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The EU is not concerned about what small states want.
What's the difference between being ruled from London or Madrid to being ruled by Brussels?

Don't know what the situation is in Spain, but as the DUP have shown you have more chance of influencing your national parliament to get what you want than an EU one.
Look what the EU have done to Scottish fisheries.
 
glasgowspur said:
I have no problem with independence as such, my issue is that the SNP haven't set out a plan that is viable, in any way.
Their "plan" and the figures it is based on is even more ludicrous than the brexiteers. It makes the bus quote look like genius.

"Leaving the EU complication aside"
Well it's not a complication, it's a fact. You can't leave it aside, SNP tried that with all the uncomfortable facts that they couldn't or didn't want to answer.

Have you looked at the paper the SNP published based on the future on independence?
I have. It basically says, trust us, it will all work out ok, we're Scottish, what can go wrong. It's trumpesqe.

I tell you what, you educate me. You tell me what would be great about Scotland being independent. Bonus marks if you can do it with the SNP plan.
I'm not alone up here in being sick to death of the Indy stuff and people who are obviously not Scottish telling us what to do and what we want based on some loud mouth politicians.

Oh I have a vote which I use at every election, so I do govern and I am master of my countries destiny. Some you win, some you lose. It's called democracy.
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Mate that is a bit of a diatribe to a simple esoteric question. I barely know what the SNP is let alone have read any of their policy papers. I don't really want to get into a debate on one side of an obviously complicated and emotional question for you which I know nothing about, so I won't. I'll google it instead.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Surely the EU gives potential for Scotland, Catalonia, Basque etc? With the EU this small potential states, don't need Madrid or London making decisions. If they are in the EU they have the protection and support with more local government.

Madrid made a big bobo. Had they just let people mess around with a vote that didn't mean anything, this would have passed by without fanfare. The drafted in police should have only had orders to deal with violence. Instead they have created a greater sense of nationalism a them against us by trying to close down polling stations and inflict brute force on passive people. Madrid shoudl have just said if you wish to waste your time with an illegal vote go ahead.
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Exactly.
Can't be long before ETA wake back up. Maybe in a more political way side by side with Catalonia rather than terrorism.

Add to that the Brexit Ireland situation.

Conditions seem ripe for something not great upcoming. Hope I'm very wrong.
 
Really don't understand why the Spanish government are being so heavy handed -- just let them vote and say they don't recognise the results, surely that's a better way of dealing with it?

This way, they just make everyone in the region hate them more. Maybe even Eta will start back up again, violence begets violence. Crazy.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Surely the EU gives potential for Scotland, Catalonia, Basque etc? With the EU this small potential states, don't need Madrid or London making decisions. If they are in the EU they have the protection and support with more local government.

Madrid made a big bobo. Had they just let people mess around with a vote that didn't mean anything, this would have passed by without fanfare. The drafted in police should have only had orders to deal with violence. Instead they have created a greater sense of nationalism a them against us by trying to close down polling stations and inflict brute force on passive people. Madrid shoudl have just said if you wish to waste your time with an illegal vote go ahead.
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The EU deliberately sabotaged the Yes vote in Scotland in 2014

They intervened by declaring Scotland wouldn't automatically continue part of the UK's membership, and would instead have to start a new application process - which would take years and require joining the Eurozone and Schengen
 
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