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Politics, politics, politics

Initially the EU couldn't get a constitution agreed so it labelled it a treaty to get that done. If your opinion is that the EU wouldn't have further downgraded that treaty to a document that didn't require the UK to sign, had we refused, then we will have to agree to disagree. We can only judge people by their actions and those of the EU to that point were underhand and undemocratic. It's my firm belief that they would have continued in that manner until they had the result they wished for.

What they did in Ireland reminds me of dodgy scientists P-hacking. Just repeat the referendum again and again, stopping when you have the answer you initially decided you were going to get.

Luckily we don't need to rely on opinions as it did not go that far the UK government signed up to the treaty what the EU may or may not have done if they did not is irrelevant - If you want to argue that the UK Government forced the constitution onto the English people you may have a point, it was not possible for the EU to.

I agree redoing the referendum for Ireland was crap, was disgusted at the time not sure what it has to with the EU forcing anything on to the UK.

You are pointing to your belief of what they would have done rather than what they did. If the UK didn't sign up to the Treaty of Lisbon they may have forced it through other ways, but they didn't have to as the UK signed up to it.

If the constitution had been called a constitution (as it was in material) then it would not have been approved. Gordon Brown's actions were disgusting and he should also be accountable for what happened, but that doesn't excuse the EU of what they did either.

The EU did all they could to push this through, I did not like the way they did it. Do you want to discuss this or the point that the EU has forced legislation on to the UK?


We had to agree - it does not matter what they may had done if we didn't as we did.


Basically what every successive Government has done, blame the EU when its their own decision / policy.
 
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Sir James Dyson expects no Brexit deal
Leave campaigner Sir James Dyson expects the UK to leave the EU with no deal, and trade to default to World Trade Organization rules and tariffs.

Sir James, who founded the engineering firm Dyson, told the BBC such an arrangement would "hurt the Europeans more than the British".

Brexit uncertainty is an opportunity for firms to forge links with fast-growing economies, Sir James said.

However, John Lewis has said Brexit uncertainty was hitting the UK economy.

'No single market'
Sir James told the BBC's Today programme that Dyson, which became famous through its innovative vacuum cleaners, already pays the WTO tariff into Europe "and it hasn't hurt us at all - we're one of the fastest growing companies in Europe".

He said UK business did not need a transitional period to separate from the European single market, saying he thought the term "single market" was "quite wrong".

"It's a series of different markets with different languages, with different marketing required and different laws.... it's actually a very highly complex and broken up market," he said.

Sir James added that "business is about uncertainty".

"There's always uncertainty in business, about exchange rates, conditions in markets, natural disasters...

"I think uncertainty is an opportunity, and the opportunity here is actually that the rest of the world is growing at a far greater rate than Europe, so the opportunity is to export to the rest of the world and to capitalise on that," he said.

Parliamentary debate
However, the chairman of the John Lewis Partnership, Sir Charlie Mayfield, told the Today programme that the pound and business confidence had been hit by the Brexit vote.

"We should be under no illusions, Brexit is having an effect on the economy, no question. It's the same for everybody, and the main effects are sterling and confidence.

"Uncertainty is one of the consequences of this, and of course businesses never like uncertainty, because it makes it hard to plan for the future.

He called for "a serious parliamentary debate, to figure out what kind of Brexit we're going to have in the best interests of the country and the economy."

'Dyson degree'
Sir James' comments came as 33 undergraduates began studying at the Dyson Institute of Engineering and Technology.

The student engineers have begun a four-year degree, during which they will be mentored by Dyson's scientists and engineers who will teach alongside academics from Warwick University.

Universities Minister Jo Johnson challenged Sir James 18 months ago to help train engineers in the UK.

Sir James said: "It is a great opportunity, and I think a great step forward in the way that higher education is provided.

"We're paying these people, they're getting about 40 days a year more academic time than you'd get at university, plus the fact that they're working with some of the best scientists and engineers in the world."
 
It seems a lot of people involved in the Brexit negotiations quit their post:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b07c06ffc86208#block-59bfb9c5e4b07c06ffc86208

This is from the Financial Times’ Jim Pickard.


Jim Pickard (@PickardJE)
hope no one reads anything into fact that David Davis has now lost his permanent secretary, special adviser & two ministers in a few months.

September 18, 2017

Pickard is referring to James Chapman, Davis’s special adviser until the general election, who is now using his Twitter feed to denounce Brexit as a complete disaster; Lord Bridges of Headley, who resigned as a Brexit minister after the election and recently used a speech in the Lords to suggest the government was not being honest about the challenges presented by Brexit; and David Jones, who was sacked as a Brexit minister after the election.
 
The commentator on Newsnight last night reckoned the guy moving yesterday was being done to give him sole focus on the negotiations (with them moving from occasional to constant), rather having to manage the internal workings of the department as well, and that it had long been planned.
 
The commentator on Newsnight last night reckoned the guy moving yesterday was being done to give him sole focus on the negotiations (with them moving from occasional to constant), rather having to manage the internal workings of the department as well, and that it had long been planned.

I think that is right but it is being done from No. 10 now rather than DExEU.this article is a good run through of what has happened and has links to some background stories on the disagreements within Cabinet.

https://jonworth.eu/may-gearing-change-government-machinery-deliver-brexit-far-will-go/

I think that this should always have been done from the Cabinet Office. Setting up new departments was wasting time that we didn't have. The issue is how much more time this reorganisation wastes.

The pressure is now on May's speech on Friday. Talks with the EU were delayed a week for her "significant intervention", has Johnson's intervention made her water down that speech? I think that she is now caught between upsetting half the Cabinet and further alienating the EU27.
 
I think that is right but it is being done from No. 10 now rather than DExEU.this article is a good run through of what has happened and has links to some background stories on the disagreements within Cabinet.

https://jonworth.eu/may-gearing-change-government-machinery-deliver-brexit-far-will-go/

I think that this should always have been done from the Cabinet Office. Setting up new departments was wasting time that we didn't have. The issue is how much more time this reorganisation wastes.

The pressure is now on May's speech on Friday. Talks with the EU were delayed a week for her "significant intervention", has Johnson's intervention made her water down that speech? I think that she is now caught between upsetting half the Cabinet and further alienating the EU27.

Again the same guy on Newsnight, reckoned the £45-46b payment figure to settle that issue and get on with CETA+ talks was now supported by the Johnson/Gove faction, as well as the May/Davis one and the Hammond one.
 
Again the same guy on Newsnight, reckoned the £45-46b payment figure to settle that issue and get on with CETA+ talks was now supported by the Johnson/Gove faction, as well as the May/Davis one and the Hammond one.

What I have heard is that you have Johnstone, Gove, Fox and Patel in the CETA plus camp, Hammond, Green, Rudd, Clark and Hunt for EEA minus. Davies and May were said to be in the middle but moving towards EEA minus. I think that it will come down to the Treasury challenge to DfIT, demonstrate that trade deals with the rest of the world from CETA + are worth more than the trade lost from the EU, I do not believe that they will be able to do this.
 
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