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Politics, politics, politics

milo said:
I agree. The government should have taken a consensual approach last summer and tried to bring the country back together. It chose to do the opposite. I still think that this approach can be taken but time is against us and it would require a complete about face by the government. The delay does not cause problems on this side, the EU27 will have prepared for May's hard Brexit, if we now ask for a Norway type solution they will need to consult on that and reach agreement amongst the 27.
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Soft Brexit could be sorted in a day.

You just delete the UK's name from the list of members, and everything else continues just the same. The problem with soft Brexit is that it is membership in all but name.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Something else that might be a consideration. The constituency boundary reforms happen in 2018, so it will be well worth the Tories waiting till after then to fight the next election with that benefiting them.
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I wonder what the result would look like if they'd already come in.
The new boundaries would have been drawn up using now out of date data, presumably with a focus on widening marginals that bordered strongholds - but there are now some very close margins
 
Gutter Boy said:
Something else that might be a consideration. The constituency boundary reforms happen in 2018, so it will be well worth the Tories waiting till after then to fight the next election with that benefiting them.
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I wouldn't be surprised if opposition parties started agitating against this. The new constituencies were based on the numbers on the electoral role a number of years back. There has been several surges in registrations since then which could give them an excuse to reopen the debate.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Soft Brexit could be sorted in a day.

You just delete the UK's name from the list of members, and everything else continues just the same. The problem with soft Brexit is that it is membership in all but name.
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Nonsense. Every form of Brexit is complex and will take time but using a model that is already there and maintaining many of our current commitments would be simpler than the current proposal.
 
milo said:
Nonsense. Every form of Brexit is complex and will take time but using a model that is already there and maintaining many of our current commitments would be simpler than the current proposal.
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With the political fragility in the UK i think the EU will be smart enough to let us suggest moving to a transitional Norway type model and "be open to further negotiationing" full Brexit.
By which time people will be so fed up of it enough people will accept that position and call it Brexit and the dissenting voices will be told to pipe down.
 
monkeybarry said:
With the political fragility in the UK i think the EU will be smart enough to let us suggest moving to a transitional Norway type model and "be open to further negotiationing" full Brexit.
By which time people will be so fed up of it enough people will accept that position and call it Brexit and the dissenting voices will be told to pipe down.
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You could be right
 
milo said:
I agree. The government should have taken a consensual approach last summer and tried to bring the country back together. It chose to do the opposite. I still think that this approach can be taken but time is against us and it would require a complete about face by the government. The delay does not cause problems on this side, the EU27 will have prepared for May's hard Brexit, if we now ask for a Norway type solution they will need to consult on that and reach agreement amongst the 27.
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Mays' area of expertise, surely.?
 
scaramanga said:
I'd be surprised if they lean too far towards Corbyn. He had the easiest target he'll ever have to fight against and didn't get anywhere near a majority.

A convincing, likeable leader who can win back the lost conservative vote that May did so much damage to should take a comfortable majority at the next election. Hopefully enough to be able to ignore the loony backbenchers.
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Someone like Macron could come along and walk it.
 
monkeybarry said:
I wonder what the result would look like if they'd already come in.
The new boundaries would have been drawn up using now out of date data, presumably with a focus on widening marginals that bordered strongholds - but there are now some very close margins
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Labour's vote being concentrated in cities was the cause of the disparity, I believe. Those changes were due to make Labour almost unelectable based on recent showings (no gerrymandering here, it was an independent measure).

We might find now that it hurts the Conservatives in Scotland as much as it gains them in England.

And I don't think anyone's measured the effect of bigger fringe parties either.
 
scaramanga said:
Labour's vote being concentrated in cities was the cause of the disparity, I believe. Those changes were due to make Labour almost unelectable based on recent showings (no gerrymandering here, it was an independent measure).

We might find now that it hurts the Conservatives in Scotland as much as it gains them in England.

And I don't think anyone's measured the effect of bigger fringe parties either.
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The decisions to reduce the number of constituencies and move from population of constituencies to the number of people on the electoral roll were political decisions designed to reduce the number of Labour MPs. The Boundary Commission just reconfigured the constituency map under that direction.
 
milo said:
The decisions to reduce the number of constituencies and move from population of constituencies to the number of people on the electoral roll were political decisions designed to reduce the number of Labour MPs. The Boundary Commission just reconfigured the constituency map under that direction.
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Find it opportunistic to do this on the grounds of democracy but fight to keep fptp and house of Lords.
 
Robspur12 said:
I agree with this. I think Corbyn did well to mobilise the young, momentum's drive on social media played a big part in this. He also did well on the campaign trail. But Corbyn was presented with an open goal by a Tory party yet again more concerned with its own internal politics than the country and a campaign so incompetent it puts David Moyes' last season at Sunderland in a favourable light.

Here's the thing, the Labour Party "triumph" mirrors Tottenham's last season. A glorious second place finish against the odds. The problem is I don't feel particularly triumphant; I am a Labour Party member still faced with a Tory administration I despise who have caused one of the worst constitutional crises this country has ever faced and have rained austerity on ordinary people. Corbyn needs to widen his support and give the impression to middle aged people like me that he is competent to run a Government. This is the third election we have not won and I can't help thinking the Tories won't be so incompetent next time. Sorry if I am raining on people's parade much as I respect the opinions of the corbynistas on this board.
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I hear were you are coming from over this and tend to agree with it. I do believe that Corbyn has a lot more to offer though and from when he first got the position he was hammered from piller to post by the so called experts as being a loser. Well i think he has shown he is much better then what the experts said he was. Of course the Tory party helped in being so
incompetent in there campaign but they have done so before and won the day.

When Corbyn first got the job i said it was refreshing to see a guy in politics who was more interested in others then like most who are all about their imagine and sound bites. He took a hammering at first from the so called experts but bit by bit he started to impress voters and won their votes. I hope that he will now start being seen as a man of principles unlike most politicians. I fear this may not happen though.
 
So let me get this right. The sensible and learned commentators of the right poo pooed the idea of a Labour SNP coalition, as being beyond the pale and a coalition of chaos, yet they approve of the Tories governing with the support of a bunch of right wing extremist cranks. Cranks with known associations with terrorists. Hypocrites or what? What concessions will the Tories have to make to these nut jobs for the sake of holding onto power? They are selling Britain out.
 
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