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Politics, politics, politics

the dza said:
If people vote Tory, then that's what will happen. We can all choose to vote otherwise, if people don't then that's democracy.
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There also isn't a choice for many, with both of the major English parties supporting Brexit. You could argue that the Labour leader's support for leaving the EU is far longer standing than the PMs.

I don't think that there will be sufficient detail on what the government will seek from negotiations during the campaign for the electorate to make an informed decision. I don't think that the press will push them sufficiently on this either.
 
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milo said:
I don't think that there will be sufficient detail on what the government will seek from negotiations during the campaign for the electorate to make an informed decision.
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Well, we know that the Tories will say they don't want to be in the single market.

The Lib Dems could say they will not leave the EU and try and grab the votes of the 48%, a reverse UKIP.

Labour could say they would opt to stay in the single market whilst still leaving the EU.

Those 3 paths would obviously lead to very different negotiations, it's up to people to decide what road they want to go down.
 
the dza said:
Well, we know that the Tories will say they don't want to be in the single market.

The Lib Dems could say they will not leave the EU and try and grab the votes of the 48%, a reverse UKIP.

Labour could say they would opt to stay in the single market whilst still leaving the EU.

Those 3 paths would obviously lead to very different negotiations, it's up to people to decide what road they want to go down.
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The Tories will not stray from their "get the best possible deal for the UK" line which is meaningless.
 
milo said:
The Tories will not stray from their "get the best possible deal for the UK" line which is meaningless.
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But we know they want to leave the single market, that is an absolute. The Lib Dems and Labour can lay out their broad position on it (as I said, Lib Dems could say "we won't leave") and people can vote on the path they want the country to take.
 
the dza said:
But we know they want to leave the single market, that is an absolute. The Lib Dems and Labour can lay out their broad position on it (as I said, Lib Dems could say "we won't leave") and people can vote on the path they want the country to take.
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I think that the official government line is membership of the single market without the electorate or their backbenchers noticing and without any of the bits that they don't like.

Labour doesn't have a line.

The Lib Dems clearly think that it is a bad idea and support a referendum on the outcome of negotiations.
 
milo said:
I think that the official government line is membership of the single market without the electorate or their backbenchers noticing and without any of the bits that they don't like.

Labour doesn't have a line.

The Lib Dems clearly think that it is a bad idea and support a referendum on the outcome of negotiations.
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Well, we will know what the party lines are for sure in the campaigning over the next couple of months. Broadly, Tory Hard Brexit, Labour softer Brexit and Lib Dem remain. And people will vote for what they want, coupled with policies on our national politics (I suspect for many people it will be all about brexit).
 
the dza said:
Well, we will know what the party lines are for sure in the campaigning over the next couple of months. Broadly, Tory Hard Brexit, Labour softer Brexit and Lib Dem remain. And people will vote for what they want, coupled with policies on our national politics (I suspect for many people it will be all about brexit).
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The issue is that i do not think that the implications of each will be properly explored and the Tories will be able to get away with saying that they want the best possible deal with the EU and global UK.

BTW I do not believe that May's stance is hard Brexit. I think that she was forced into that by some backbenchers and that she recognises that it would be suicide.
 
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milo said:
It's pure politics. She could have taken that stance at any time since she was elected but took the opposite.

The only crumb of comfort i can take from this is that a larger majority will make her less reliant on her headbanger back benchers and might give her the freedom to take a more pragmatic approach to our future relationship to the EU.
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I think this is precisely why she is forcing the election. She could publicly stamp on the heads of babies with Corbyn as the opposition and increase her share of the vote.

This is just an internal Conservative power play and is another way of her edging out those who opposed her initially and continue to get in the way now. She'll be able to name her own cabinet and hopefully this time won't need to include many of those she was obliged to last time.
 
scaramanga said:
I think this is precisely why she is forcing the election. She could publicly stamp on the heads of babies with Corbyn as the opposition and increase her share of the vote.

This is just an internal Conservative power play and is another way of her edging out those who opposed her initially and continue to get in the way now. She'll be able to name her own cabinet and hopefully this time won't need to include many of those she was obliged to last time.
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I agree that is what what she is doing. Let's put a tenner on Boris at Culture, Media and Sport.
 
milo said:
The issue is that i do not think that the implications of each will be properly explored and the Tories will be able to get away with saying that they want the best possible deal with the EU and global UK.

BTW I do not believe that May's stance is hard Brexit. I think that she was forced into that by some backbenchers and that she recognises that it would be suicide.
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I think that their line during the election campaign will be tough enough to hold the Tories together and hold off UKIP but vague enough that they can pursue an EEA light strategy once she has five years, a mandate and an increased majority to play with.
 
May's way of trying to exit Brexit. She's on a hiding to nothing with European fail, so had to do something. Quite clever of her really. She had no other way out...

This election will be another EU vote by poxy. Shambles.
 
How/ can Labour get Blair, Blunket, Mandleson, and Cambell fast tracked for the election? With limp Corbyn could see Lib Dems sweeping Labour away. Biggest distraction tatics ever by May. EU negotiations look impossible...call an election! If it wasn't such a waste of UK time and energy it would be genius.
 
SpurMeUp said:
May's way of trying to exit Brexit. She's on a hiding to nothing with European fail, so had to do something. Quite clever of her really. She had no other way out...

This election will be another EU vote by poxy. Shambles.
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SpurMeUp said:
How/ can Labour get Blair, Blunket, Mandleson, and Cambell fast tracked for the election? With limp Corbyn could see Lib Dems sweeping Labour away. Biggest distraction tatics ever by May. EU negotiations look impossible...call an election! If it wasn't such a waste of UK time and energy it would be genius.
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I don't see anyone with any knowledge of politics suggesting this is the case.

Pretty much everyone is saying that it's a power grab within the Conservative Party and an opportunity to set her own manifesto and not have to live by someone else's. The only other factor in this is the recent strong polls for her party making it a fairly safe option to take.
 
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