Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[SkipRat]

Bloke has hump with immigrants but moans about us giving up and island Thousand of miles away. These confused bigots never fail to expose themselves with their nonsense

That's so embarrassing for you, I am actually laughing my ass of at this. And the final comment, I am bigot for knowing more about what is going in the world than you do

Do you actually really understand what you are saying?

Once again, not debating the person, because you haven't got a clue and claim it's non-sense

Too funny, too funny.

 

[SkipRat]

It’s very simple: you can outline the problem then list the solution.

Rather than just rant away like some nut on a park bench. “Immigrants, Stammer blah blah rant”

Or you can stop calling people racist for knowing more than you and pretending that everything is okay and that mass immigration is not sustainable and is having some serious negative effects on the country.

Fancy calling someone a racist for taking the stance that treating women like shyte, denying the an education, is not the kind of ideology we want to bring into the country.

You are living in absolute denial, it's astonishing.

 

[SkipRat]

She's recognised and even met with known trans hate groups, such as the LGB alliance.

When discussing trans women she has still used the term men.

She wanted the FCA to move away from trans inclusive workplace policies.

She's suggested that trans immigrants should have their gender reclassified should they have self identified in another country.

I'll save you asking the question on gay marriage, she supported Kate Forbes, after she outed herself as also being a homophobe.

Badenoch is a bigot.

Or is this what you have read in the Guardian, or what she has said herself, with the full context in which it was said or like some many interviews.

As I have heard so many claims like this about many people to discover, that is only half the context of it.

Never heard of Kate Forbes, could really give a toss either, so provide me with the context of what was said.

And I don't care about Kemi Badenoch, but what bothers me is lies and and peoples statements being taken out of context to mislead the public over what was said.

 

[SkipRat]

Giving Chagos to Mauritius is in line with UN resolutions passed in 2019 (or 2021, I can't remember) which didn't recognise the Chagossians as being the people to discuss things with but that UK should 'return' Chagos to Mauritius. Hardly Starmer's fault he is following International expectations.

And as I pointed out to another post the UN are incompetent and corrupt to the core. Emplying death squads as UN troops and covering it up.

Such as this.

I have absolutely no confidence in the UN at all and the performance in Bosnia, was appalling.

It's easy to hide behind UN rules, when you know you are doing something wrong.

Starmer should have had the strength to tell the UN to go do one and it's not negotiable. Then put the time and effort to solve the issuse on Chagos. There was a documentary about the island that came out a few years ago, watch it, it's rather good.

 

[Grays_1890]

That's so embarrassing for you, I am actually laughing my ass of at this. And the final comment, I am bigot for knowing more about what is going in the world than you do

Do you actually really understand what you are saying?

Once again, not debating the person, because you haven't got a clue and claim it's non-sense

Too funny, too funny.

Na you are just boring pal, that's why people don't debate you.

You are what you are, you can keep throw8ng out the stock replies but ita clear as day what you are.

Enjoy

 

[Baleforce]

Been a few new posters in the last couple of weeks being a a bit odd, are they bots?

 

[SpiderSpurs]

I have pointed Starmer giving away Chagos without even speaking to the natives from island, not even single consideration towards Mauritius and links with Chilna, and what China has been upto in the South China Sea, and the Chinese Silk Road program, and what they have been doing Africa... you even ignored this.

You might want to do more research into how and why those islands were handed back.

There will still be a US base on the island.

 

[SkipRat]

Na you are just boring pal, that's why people don't debate you.

You are what you are, you can keep throw8ng out the stock replies but it a clear as day what you are.

Enjoy

Stock replies, like knowing about over fishing by the EU and China and land sales to Morocco in Senegal is driving migration to the EU, where they are being treated almost like slaves and underpaid in Spain...



Out of your depth. You know nothing and you don't how to respond, the only stock replies around here yours and others that only take a debate as far as your racist.

 

[SkipRat]

You might want to do more research into how and why those islands were handed back.

There will still be a US base on the island.

Maybe so, but then you pointing this out which I will check, is more of debate than calling someone racist.

 

[Lost Mango]

Most opinions are not extreme, it's just the left have lurched so far too the left that the definition of extreme has changed.

Wow. You seriously believe that the left are the ones to have lurched significantly to their outside over the last 40 years??? You are in cloud cuckoo, mate.

Culture Wars are (despite what you alluded to in an earlier post) a right wing contrivance, always started by reactionary, conservative organisations (the church, the establishment) to prevent progress (-ive) movement in society, changes that reduce their influence, power and wealth. The left has, over the last 40 years fallen for the trap and engaged in these Culture Wars to try and justify equality and individual freedoms but in doing so have fought and often lost on right of centre grounds. The whole political window, the Overton Window, on what is acceptable to include in public discourse and where the centre ground' lies has shifted so significantly far to the right that it would make Macmillan a Trot now.

And then the right cry crocodile tears over any slight oscillation back away from them. Absolute snowflakes.

 

[Grays_1890]

Stock replies, like knowing about over fishing by the EU and China and land sales to Morocco in Senegal is driving migration to the EU, where they are being treated almost like slaves and underpaid in Spain...



Out of your depth. You know nothing and you don't how to respond, the only stock replies around here yours and others that only take a debate as far as your racist.

 

[Kompakted]

Probably not a paper you read, but nonetheless...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rth-15bn-had-corruption-red-flags-study-finds

Politico not on your list either I'd guess? Apologies if wrongly assumed...

https://www.politico.eu/article/mic...-mone-admits-making-millions-covid-contracts/

If this item from the BBC doesn't at least raise a question in someone, then I'd suggest that person is determined to disregard any notion of wrongdoing regardless of any information/facts coming to light...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60176283

...more on Mone...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/25/michelle-mone-leading-entrepreneur-or-lucky-baroness

...and this is rather damning...

https://www.open-contracting.org/20...e-thought-new-analysis-raises-more-red-flags/

I take exception to this situation -which remains under scrutiny and analysis, and which has shown a dark hand several times- being written off as 'hyperbolic' and 'factually inaccurate'.

Finally managed to get through all of this. Some of it I think I've probably read before.

I think first of all, let's get the Mone stuff out if the way. It's clear that what the Mone's did is worthy of investigation and I believe it IS being investigated by the NCA. But that doesn't mean the whole process was corrupt or that people around WM were handing contracts out to their mates. The PPI Medpro contracts were picked out for investigation in a post-award audit which kind of goes to the point that I'm making - that civil service procurement were in charge and that controls had been put in place to do a post-award audit of fast-tracked contracts. This was not a scheme set up by government in order to carry out corrupt practices.

Big fan of transparency's work - and they're right about everything they say there -but my question is so what? Context is key here. Yes there are the red flags of corruption in all of these contracts:
- contracts awarded to companies with links to government ministers and officials.
- contracts at inflated prices.
- contracts that did not follow a full tender and due diligence process.
All of that was a product of circumstance however.

Because I can tell you now:
- if ministers hasn't called in favours
- if the government put these deals through a proper tender process and
- if the government didn't pay inflated prices...

...then you lot wouldn't be moaning about corruption in PPE procurement during the pandemic - you'd be moaning about the complete lack of PPE procurement during the pandemic.

The BBC article is another so-what article? So the government have had to write off huge sums of money - it was inevitable.

 

[Kompakted]

Just on chagos - I bet 99.9% of people that are voicing an opinon on this didn't know they existed about a week ago

This is one of the biggest lies ever told.

The problem with the NHS is staff retention, because working conditions and quality of of life in the UK is so fecking awful, nurses are getting trained and leaving. All migrant nurses are doing is covering the cracks of broken system. Fleecing other countries for the nurses, becuase governments are too fecking lazy to their job properly and run the country better for the people who live here instead in the interests of investers who suck vast amounts of money out of the of teh country.

So the truth is, if the UK had better quality of life and everything not being a scam to suck s dry, the NHS wouldn;t have retention problem, and we would need migrant nurse to plaster over a broken system.

As you say it's a political choice.

The UK has one of the highest standards of living in the world. Honestly people that think everything I'd crap here need to travel more. Even the level of poverty and homelessness in parts of the US would shock you by comparison.

Problem with NHS pay is the pensions, simple as.

You give a private sector employee £70K a year, you match their pension contribution of say 5%. You are not taking on the long-term liability of the pension scheme as the employees savings will be static once they leave and when they retire they'll purchase an annuity from an insurance company or take another option. What they've got in their pension pot at retirement is what they've got.

With an NHS worker, they have a defined benefit pension scheme for example, they will be paid a set proportion of their average earnings for every year they participate in the scheme.

What this means is that the NHS has to make up any short-fall in scheme investment growth. That's the main elephant in the room holding down NHS pay, because if you give a private sector person £70K a year, most employers limit contribution matching to say 8-10% and so you're topping out at £80K or so on liability to that person every year they work for you and when they leave your liability stops. With the NHS the liability to them continues long after they've left and it's based on their average earnings (I.e. the higher NHS staff are paid the higher the long term pension cost sink is for the government).

 

[Mikey10]

You might want to do more research into how and why those islands were handed back.

There will still be a US base on the island.

Don’t let the facts get in the way of a rant.

 

[thfcsteff]

Finally managed to get through all of this. Some of it I think I've probably read before.

I think first of all, let's get the Mone stuff out if the way. It's clear that what the Mone's did is worthy of investigation and I believe it IS being investigated by the NCA. But that doesn't mean the whole process was corrupt or that people around WM were handing contracts out to their mates. The PPI Medpro contracts were picked out for investigation in a post-award audit which kind of goes to the point that I'm making - that civil service procurement were in charge and that controls had been put in place to do a post-award audit of fast-tracked contracts. This was not a scheme set up by government in order to carry out corrupt practices.

Big fan of transparency's work - and they're right about everything they say there -but my question is so what? Context is key here. Yes there are the red flags of corruption in all of these contracts:
- contracts awarded to companies with links to government ministers and officials.
- contracts at inflated prices.
- contracts that did not follow a full tender and due diligence process.
All of that was a product of circumstance however.

Because I can tell you now:
- if ministers hasn't called in favours
- if the government put these deals through a proper tender process and
- if the government didn't pay inflated prices...

...then you lot wouldn't be moaning about corruption in PPE procurement during the pandemic - you'd be moaning about the complete lack of PPE procurement during the pandemic.

The BBC article is another so-what article? So the government have had to write off huge sums of money - it was inevitable.

I appreciate the discussion and counter points. I don't necessarily agree, but am going to read through again in more detail in the interests of understanding a perspective other than one which sits next to mine.

 

[Grays_1890]

...then you lot wouldn't be moaning about corruption in PPE procurement during the pandemic - you'd be moaning about the complete lack of PPE procurement during the pandemic.

Wasn't the Mone PPE both corrupt in its procurement and also absolutely useless and not fit for use?

Not exactly the dynamic use of funds being sold here

 

[Rorschach]

Social media like Parler and Truth Social, etc. are pants because it is full right wingnuts and nothing else. There's no payoff when no one 'debates' you.

 

[Kompakted]

Wasn't the Mone PPE both corrupt in its procurement and also absolutely useless and not fit for use?

Not exactly the dynamic use of funds being sold here

It's subject of an NCA criminal investigation and civil claim by the government. PPE Medpro, the firm recommended by Mone were awarded x2 contracts. The 1st contract is not subject of dispute. The second contract was for face masks and gowns, but the gowns were rejected following a delivery inspection. PPE Medpro and fighting the government's challenge in the civil courts claiming that the gowns passed quality control checks and were made to the spec given but that the government overordered and then had external consultants pick over the contract to attempt to get out of it. So not quite as clear-cut as you make out: A) because the fulfilled one contract without dispute and B) because the NHS accepted the masks supplied in the second contract but rejected the gowns and C) because PPE Medpro ate fighting the gown rejection in the courts - and so whether these gowns were "absolutely useless" will be a matter of judicial determination!

 

[Grays_1890]

It's subject of an NCA criminal investigation and civil claim by the government. PPE Medpro, the firm recommended by Mone were awarded x2 contracts. The 1st contract is not subject of dispute. The second contract was for face masks and gowns, but the gowns were rejected following a delivery inspection. PPE Medpro and fighting the government's challenge in the civil courts claiming that the gowns passed quality control checks and were made to the spec given but that the government overordered and then had external consultants pick over the contract to attempt to get out of it. So not quite as clear-cut as you make out: A) because the fulfilled one contract without dispute and B) because the NHS accepted the masks supplied in the second contract but rejected the gowns and C) because PPE Medpro ate fighting the gown rejection in the courts - and so whether these gowns were "absolutely useless" will be a matter of judicial determination!

So in short we overpaid for half an order. Hardly any point arguing about the use of gowns now 2 years post covid....if they were no good then they were no good for what they were purchased for.

 

[Kompakted]

So in short we overpaid for half an order. Hardly any point arguing about the use of gowns now 2 years post covid....if they were no good then they were no good for what they were purchased for.

The government are suing them for £ millions for breach of contract, hence the argument!