Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[SkipRat]

He was making a general point that what "culture" is considered "in fashion", "good", "bad" etc is often decided by the media and those who would be grouped as "Middle Class" or "the chattering classes". He seemed to also be saying (like you are perhaps?) who should care what the media etc class as 'culture'. Of course correct me if i'm wrong @K.D.D.D.D.Soc

Whether you watch TV, buy newspapers or not the general point he was making still stands some weight when look back at History.

As to your particular point about FGM: There are many cultures who find it abhorrent; even in the countries where it takes place there will be many who don't practice it and also find it abhorrent. Anyone who is caught practising FGM in this country is at risk of going to prison so i'm not sure your point about 'culture' stands up any more than if people in Dubai say "we should not have people from Western countries come into the country because they drink too much, love eating pork, show thuggish behaviour when drunk" etc etc.

If you don't follow the laws of any land you go to, you'll eventually go to prison etc. Same with FGM

Just like the two Muslim guys that brutally assaulted police officers at Manchester Airport (all on cctv) who are still not in jail, yet a 13 year old girl involved in the riots just got sentence.

The problem with this all cultures are equal, it's just like in communism, some cultures are more equal than others.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Just like the two Muslim guys that brutally assaulted police officers at Manchester Airport (all on cctv) who are still not in jail, yet a 13 year old girl involved in the riots just got sentence.

The problem with this all cultures are equal, it's just like in communism, some cultures are more equal than others.

If we want to look at inconsistencies in sentencing and colour/class/profession we could bring a long list...just recently we saw Huw Edwards escape a jail sentence for handling paedophilic images, i'm sure someone here can point out others who got a far harsher sentences for much less.


Sometimes corruption etc isn't anything to do with 'culture'...

 

[SkipRat]

I was not insinuating anything about how your options are formed but making a point that our society is heavily influenced by what is in the media, some very subtlety.

And I would have agreed with you.

It is also influencing by what is not said in the media too. Like telling the truth about cultures from around the world, be honest about Sharia Law, that something like 40% (1/3 ish) of the Muslim population want to see in the UK, despite it being one of the most barbaric things on the planet. But it never happens, and when you call it out for it is, people are labelled Islamophobic and racist.#

And it still doesn't change the fact that Badenoch hasn't said anything wrong, she is telling the truth for once and being honest. Regardless if people like hearing what she said or not.

 

[SkipRat]

If we want to look at inconsistencies in sentencing and colour/class/profession we could bring a long list...just recently we saw Huw Edwards escape a jail sentence for handling paedophilic images, i'm sure someone here can point out others who got a far harsher sentences for much less.


Sometimes corruption etc isn't anything to do with 'culture'...

But then we are not talking about individuals breaking the law in their countries. We are discussing cultures as whole. Why were Muslims allowed to walk the streets of England armed with machetes and knives, even slashing the tires of a sky news vehicle, but no request from police to identify these people. Just white rioters only, that have posted by the police, those wanted and sentenced.

Or the women from Germany (Hamburg) who got a longer prison sentence for offending a bunch of Muslim men, 9 of them, IIRC, who gang raped a 15 year old for several hours, 8 of whom were let off despite having DNA evidence against them.

But still, all this is deflating from the point, that we in the UK, do want these barbaric cultures in this country and giving them equal rights is a very dangerous road, as most people don't know what they are giving equality too.

Islam, we are constantly told is a peaceful religion, it is until you break one of their laws, and you get stoned, lashed, killed, beaten, and imprisoned.

 

[Gutter Boy]

What are 'British values' exactly?

Lemon curd, black pudding and racism.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

And I would have agreed with you.

It is also influencing by what is not said in the media too. Like telling the truth about cultures from around the world, be honest about Sharia Law, that something like 40% (1/3 ish) of the Muslim population want to see in the UK, despite it being one of the most barbaric things on the planet. But it never happens, and when you call it out for it is, people are labelled Islamophobic and racist.#

And it still doesn't change the fact that Badenoch has said anything wrong, you is telling the truth for once and being honest. Regardless of people like hearing what she said or not.

That would be about a million adults, I would expect more adults in Britain would want to bring back hanging and that's not going to happen either.

 

[SkipRat]

What are 'British values' exactly?

None in that list, that's for sure.

 

[glorygloryeze]

But then we are not talking about individuals breaking the law in their countries. We are discussing cultures as whole. Why were Muslims allowed to walk the streets of England armed with machetes and knives, even slashing the tires of a sky news vehicle, but no request from police to identify these people. Just white rioters only, that have posted by the police, those wanted and sentenced.

Or the women from Germany (Hamburg) who got a longer prison sentence for offending a bunch of Muslim men, 9 of them, IIRC, who gang raped a 15 year old for several hours, 8 of whom were let off despite having DNA evidence against them.

We could go down several rabbit holes here; do you remember the Amanda Knox case in Italy? There was an African guy convicted and sentenced for a long-time right away...meanwhile Amanda Knox and her lover, both white, erm...
If one wants to look at policing and justice, here and across Europe, North America, Australia etc we could all construct narratives about how one group or another get an unfair deal...

But still, all this is deflating from the point, that we in the UK, do want these barbaric cultures in this country and giving them equal rights is a very dangerous road, as most people don't know what you are giving equality too.

Which 'barbaric culture' is given equal rights??
If you are referring to Sharia law, can you name a place in England/The UK where Sharia law is practised AND holds sway amongst non-Muslims who don't traditionally recognise that law?

 

[SkipRat]

Which 'barbaric culture' is given equal rights??
If you are referring to Sharia law, can you name a place in England/The UK where Sharia law is practised AND holds sway amongst non-Muslims who don't traditionally recognise that law?

I have already given two examples and it doesn't have to be Sharia Law either, we said cultures right? How is Sharia Law a culture, when it is part of the Islamic Faith?

 

[glorygloryeze]

I have already given two examples and it doesn't have to be Sharia Law either, we said cultures right? How is Sharia Law a culture, when it is part of the Islamic Faith?

Was it not you that brought up Sharia law in this discussion about cultures that you think aren't compatible with UK 'culture' etc?

You seem to bringing issues you have with Islamic cultures/traditions hence why i'm then asking you where such cultures/traditions hold sway amongst people who aren't interested in it/don't want to practice it

 

[SkipRat]

Was it not you that brought up Sharia law in this discussion about cultures that you think aren't compatible with UK 'culture' etc?

You seem to bringing issues you have with Islamic cultures/traditions hence why i'm then asking you where such cultures/traditions hold sway amongst people who aren't interested in it/don't want to practice it

But isn't that precisely the point though. That some cultures are better than others and don't represent British values and that said cultures have no place in the UK.

So what has it got to do with the people aren't interested in it? They are not the ones who support FMG, slavery, etc etc

 

[Robspur12]

I'm no Tory in fact I don't like any of them but I'm afraid that's not all that's left - Many of those I know who voted Labour due to 'Anything but Tory' are regretting it and want back to Tory already. In any walk of life there's always the theory it can't get any worse, but it always can....

That's unbelievable mate. Labour have been in power since July and already had to deal with National riots, prisons full and an NHS in amess. The other lot had 14 years to get us into this mess. How can they judge Labour already?

The thing for me to not wanting the Tories back, is that the seemingly decent and sensible moderate Tories have been purged from the party; Leaving this divisive, populist, culture war waging iteration. They need to start by putting in place a sensible leader either Tugenhat or Cleverly. But you just know they won't.

 

[SkipRat]

That's unbelievable mate. Labour have been in power since July and already had to deal with National riots, prisons full and an NHS in amess. The other lot had 14 years to get us into this mess. How can they judge Labour already?

The thing for me to not wanting the Tories back, is that the seemingly decent and sensible moderate Tories have been purged from the party; Leaving this divisive, populist, culture war waging iteration. They need to start by putting in place a sensible leader either Tugenhat or Cleverly. But you just know they won't.

I hate the Tories, I hate Labour....

But the culture war was started by the left and their insanity, resulting in the current backlash to all.

As for the riots, well, they really screwed up. They are not going to win the next election, they are more hated than the Tories. The only reason they won they election was not because people put their trust in them, it;s the fact they people didn't vote for the conservatives.

Labour have zero vision, they labelled most of the country far right during the riots, rather than actually listening to people and actually addressing their concerns. No, they labelled everyone far right, arrested them all regardless of how small their participation was, publicly humiliated them. Whilst at the same time allowing Muslims to walk around the streets armed with machetes and knives, nothing done regarding they rioting they got up to, not public humiliation.

They negated on ending the energy market scam, they are not addressing the concerns of the people and for all the pointing out the gifts the Tories got, immediately do the same thing.

Labour are a dead party, walking.

 

[glorygloryeze]

But isn't that precisely the point though. That some cultures are better than others and don't represent British values and that said cultures have no place in the UK.

So what has it got to do with the people aren't interested in it? They are not the ones who support FMG, slavery, etc etc

The point is that if it impinges on other people in an unlawful way, it will get dealt with.
That is FGM is not welcome here and if anyone is caught doing it they get dealt with.
If anyone tries to impose Sharia Law that gets dealt with.

Brits in Spain, Greece etc getting drunk and behaving badly in public don't represent the local culture in those countries and get dealt with as necessary in the same way if they cross certain legal lines etc

There is a difference between not liking some aspects of another 'culture' and someone from another 'culture' engaging in behaviours that are illegal (as FGM is)

 

[Baleforce]

Hang on, weren't you always a Tory voter yourself?

Yes, when they were a middle ground slightly liberal party.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Yes, when they were they were a middle ground slightly liberal party.

Ok. When was that?

 

[Baleforce]

So you support having child marriages and FGM in the UK, and provide them with same protections as with other cultures.

Good to know.

As for other examples, I very much doubt you will add any nuanced addition to the debate other than regurgitating what the Guardian says.

If you had you would realise she is not against trans rights. If can provide me with a quote that says this, in full context of what is being said, with out being a cherry picked section to insinuate that something that was never meant.

I mean, I have spoken to a fair few Tran's people, especially in a couple of communities I am in, and they absolute hate the current LGCTQ+ community, as they are just tinkling people off and giving them a bad name and making things worse for them.

So please, go ahead and tell me how she is against trans right, as you have already shown you have no idea about cultures from around the world actually know what is going on.

Now where did I say that?

 

[Baleforce]

Ok. When was that?

Under Cameron

 

[SkipRat]

Under Cameron

Wow! cutting benefits to the disabled is now liberal and centre ground.

Handing £540 billion (including labours contribution) to investors and the banks, then making the poor pay for it. In one of the biggest redistribution of wealth from the poorest to the richest in history is liberal middle ground.

Pretty special that. Pretty special.

 

[harr1984]

That's unbelievable mate. Labour have been in power since July and already had to deal with National riots, prisons full and an NHS in amess. The other lot had 14 years to get us into this mess. How can they judge Labour already?

The thing for me to not wanting the Tories back, is that the seemingly decent and sensible moderate Tories have been purged from the party; Leaving this divisive, populist, culture war waging iteration. They need to start by putting in place a sensible leader either Tugenhat or Cleverly. But you just know they won't.

I'm not involved in it, I don't vote as there's no one I believe in leader wise they are all uninspiring. But it seems they have voted Labour purely for being on the Tories out bandwagon, only for them to now realise what the Labour policies are and not agree with them which is their own fault for not properly looking into.

Labour deserve the opportunity as I agree Tories have fudged up - but I don't believe they will fare any better, they have as many clowns as the Tories do and will just find different ways of making a mess of things. Indeed prisons are full, Labours' solution is to release criminals early and surprise surprise a load of these criminals are already back in prison It's always easier being the party not in power critical of governments every move, I look at Starmer and the rest of his clan and they do not inspire me to make real and positive change in the slightest.....