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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
I’d agree that all parties are corrupt, but the endemic scale of corruption in this Tory party is far, far vaster than the cash for honours scandal under labour. The NAO, report indicates that between £29b and £59b had been lost to corruption under this government and that only covers the pandemic.
It makes the SNP farrago look positively provincial!

not to mention the series of crises that the tories have brought upon this country in trying to implement brexit.

And that clownshoe liz truss nearly causing a meltdown with her clown car economic policies.

After 13 years of colossal clusterfudges on an epic scale “anyone but the conservatives” is too bloody right.

Even corbyn wouldn’t have been as bad as this inept bunch of self serving tossers.
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They are literally pillaging the country before they’re kicked out. It’s a decade or more’s work to put right what they’ve ruined.
 
Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
I’d agree that all parties are corrupt, but the endemic scale of corruption in this Tory party is far, far vaster than the cash for honours scandal under labour. The NAO, report indicates that between £29b and £59b had been lost to corruption under this government and that only covers the pandemic.
It makes the SNP farrago look positively provincial!

not to mention the series of crises that the tories have brought upon this country in trying to implement brexit.

And that clownshoe liz truss nearly causing a meltdown with her clown car economic policies.

After 13 years of colossal clusterfudges on an epic scale “anyone but the conservatives” is too bloody right.

Even corbyn wouldn’t have been as bad as this inept bunch of self serving tossers.
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In financial amounts its not surprising that a uk wide governments corruption is larger, not sure if that's a solid argument if look at it in scale.
Let's be clear here though, the amount of money is irrelevant, it's the intent.
Not only the intent carry out the misdeed in the first place, but the lies, the cover ups, and lengths they will go to to cover up.
Whether its Blair and his WMDs, Johnson with covid money, (for brevity I'm only going with one, we all know there are many, many more), truss, well truss for just being truss, or the absolute poop fest that is very slowly being uncovered that is the SNP, none of them any are any different.
Anyone but the tories is fine, what i cannot understand is continually voting for the same party, even when they are crap.
No party should be able to count on your vote, they should have to earn it at each and every election.
 
@glasgowspur i 100% agree with your assertion that we should never blindly vote for parties just because we’re always voted for them or are families have or done other spurious reason.

My understanding re the SNP is that we are talking about the misappropriation of somewhere between £700k and a few £m of party donations. Even allowing for economies of scale the level of Tory corruption is far greater than this.

That’s not to excuse or underplay the issues there at all, it’s just that saying it’s equivalent to what our national government has done underplays the corruption, incompetence and ineptitude at the heart of our government.

I also agree that the labour governments decision to invade Iraq was a disgraceful war crime and like many others i protested against this decision at the time albeit ultimately to no avail.

However you can’t portray that as a purely labour decision when it was fundamentally supported by the tories (I believe a higher proportion of Tory mps than labour mps actually voted to support the invasion although I may be wrong on that front.)
 
Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
@glasgowspur i 100% agree with your assertion that we should never blindly vote for parties just because we’re always voted for them or are families have or done other spurious reason.

My understanding re the SNP is that we are talking about the misappropriation of somewhere between £700k and a few £m of party donations. Even allowing for economies of scale the level of Tory corruption is far greater than this.

That’s not to excuse or underplay the issues there at all, it’s just that saying it’s equivalent to what our national government has done underplays the corruption, incompetence and ineptitude at the heart of our government.

I also agree that the labour governments decision to invade Iraq was a disgraceful war crime and like many others i protested against this decision at the time albeit ultimately to no avail.

However you can’t portray that as a purely labour decision when it was fundamentally supported by the tories (I believe a higher proportion of Tory mps than labour mps actually voted to support the invasion although I may be wrong on that front.)
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Yeah totally agree with almost all of that.
The Iraq war is a prime example imho where the wishes of the voter are basically ignored because it does not suit the political agenda, an agenda that they virtually all buy into regardless of the colour of their rosette.
Once they have your vote and the power our wishes are ignored.

Re the snp, yes the party funds are the headlines, but there are £ billions missing from the budget.
Which is bad enough, but the absolute criminal lengths they going to in covering it up is disgusting.
And of course they are not alone in this, makes you wonder what we never get to know about doesn't it.
 
glasgowspur said:
Yeah totally agree with almost all of that.
The Iraq war is a prime example imho where the wishes of the voter are basically ignored because it does not suit the political agenda, an agenda that they virtually all buy into regardless of the colour of their rosette.
Once they have your vote and the power our wishes are ignored.

Re the snp, yes the party funds are the headlines, but there are £ billions missing from the budget.
Which is bad enough, but the absolute criminal lengths they going to in covering it up is disgusting.
And of course they are not alone in this, makes you wonder what we never get to know about doesn't it.
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Wow I didn’t know about the missing billions from the Scottish budget!

I don’t want to go full tin foil hat but I do think the way this news keeps on getting sidelined, buried and and investigations/inquiries keep getting out on the long finger is indicative of the endemic level of corruption in our country and indeed western society!
It’s the interconnectedness of this corruption through media, the private and public sectors and politics that make it so hard to fight and disrupt.

I don’t agree with putin on anything really but can understand his comments about there being a g7 elite driving the western agenda.

People bang on about the Russian oligarchs but our oligarchs are just as greedy, grasping and corrupt, and exploit the western world in much the same way their counterparts do in Russia
 
Diamond Lights said:
This right wing conservative forum. clams everywhere
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GG?!
Definitely not!!
It's definitely more centre right and right-ish (when I hear "right wing" I think more overt racism, sexism, homophobia etc) than my peer group, but on balance I'd say we have a very healthy mix and mostly are able to debate and argue with civility.
 
Baleforce said:
The quotes out of this Tory nationalism conference.

My word, unhinged fascism.

This is dangerous, we need to kick these fudgers to the curb asap.
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I quite admire Gove for going in there (as slightly more of a liberal) and civilly calling them out. He did the same at the big rejoiner event a few months ago. I like that attempt at/spirit of engagement.
 
Bullet said:
^That Douglas Murray chap above, comes across like an extremely oily, odious, Machiavellian, threatening, fascist. Quite impressive for a couple of minutes of speech.

The NatC's are Nat-zis
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I've heard him in discussion a few times with other similar-type clams on the interweb. The mask is fully off now, but back then he pitched his bigotry at a level that would have made people just feel uncomfortable without being fully repulsed. He's a decent orator, which gets you a long way in civil society it would seem despite having pretty disgusting views. I guess he's growing into the part.
 
Considered opinion is it’s all posturing for the next leadership battle, after they get their arses handed to them in a general, seems they are all in on going further to the right, ignoring that Starmer has got Labour electable again by moving back towards the centre.
 
Baleforce said:
Braverman was peddling her regular poison as well.
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I rarely post on the subject these days, but there is a dark, gnarly thread that runs from Brexit directly to the presence of the likes of Boris, Rees Mogg, Braverman and the National Conservatives in our government. I am sure there are many who voted for Brexit that didn't see this coming and don't agree with Braverman and the National Conservatives. But it's also why remainers like me despaired at the result and the subsequent descent to an inward looking, culture warring, authoritarian little country that ironically calls this state of affairs "freedom." I really hope my children do better with politics than mine and my parents generation have done.
 
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honestly insane. 4 years ago a Tory MP was reprimanded for appearing at the NatC (yeh, read it out loud).

This year, our Home Secretary appears on it as well as others.

Just batbrick insane.
 
Baleforce said:
Considered opinion is it’s all posturing for the next leadership battle, after they get their arses handed to them in a general, seems they are all in on going further to the right, ignoring that Starmer has got Labour electable again by moving back towards the centre.
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It's what happens. The Tories went further into the wilderness with Duncan-Smith, Labour with Corbyn, Liberals with Farron etc. It's just a phase that seems necessary after electoral defeat for some reason.
 
Gutter Boy said:
It's what happens. The Tories went further into the wilderness with Duncan-Smith, Labour with Corbyn, Liberals with Farron etc. It's just a phase that seems necessary after electoral defeat for some reason.
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Until it shakes out and someone drags them back towards the centre, and hence become electable again?

The far ends of a party will always be there, being noisy. And tbh, they probably identify that the way the world is currently and the wild west communication channels open to them...the possibility of traction has never (worryingly) been higher.
 
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