Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Gutter Boy]

I would agree with that. Its a criticism of classification then. Abbott has not, and is not saying that discrimination of non-black people is okay. I think we all understand that. So really the criticism amounts to the way she has chosen to classify racism. It's a highly technical qualm. And brings me back to my first question on this: is there an overreaction? To me yes.

It also speaks to the ego-centric nature of jewish analysis. We are not sitting here discussing the Travellers Council response. Or the book on how Gingers are lampooned, and how that is not okay. Why not? I sometimes think, why don't people assert their rights with the same passion as the jews do at this juncture in time. It wasn't always like this. Growing up, jews were often discrete, okay to essentially hide their identity. Where now its more loud and proud. There is a confidence and assertiveness, which probably stems from America and the celebration of Jewishness. But i believe it is churlish to turn Abbotts attempt to represent black rights into a jewish thing. It is not all about the chosen people you know.

Jews are a race. And a religion. They are both protected characteristics. Hair colour isnt

A lot of the Momentum anti-semitism works by ignoring the race bit. They say Israel but they mean Jew (im absolutely no apologist for Israeli government policy in the West Bank/believe in 1967 borders). Its deliberate and pure racism

 

[Grays_1890]

Jews are a race. And a religion. They are both protected characteristics. Hair colour isnt

A lot of the Momentum anti-semitism works by ignoring the race bit. They say Israel but they mean Jew (im absolutely no apologist for Israeli government policy in the West Bank/believe in 1967 borders). Its deliberate and pure racism

And I just don't get why a high ranking politician would come out and try to classify levels of hate. I mean there will be plenty of travellers, Jews and Irish that have suffered more and longer periods then even Diane Abbott, so why keep score, who the hell is keeping score? I get that she has had a tough upbringing and her skin colour has been a huge barrier to life as it is for many black people, but there are others out there of different creeds and colours that have also suffered equally, maybe not in the same numbers but does it matter? Its just idiotic to make the comment.

She has taken umbrage to a letter, ironically written by a black journalist who simply stated that minority white groups – Jews and Travellers, for example – also suffer from racially motivated harm, its actually a statement of fact because they do, all of them. I ask again, why?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Far better that those Jews just hide away and keep to themselves. Wouldn't want them getting all uppity, would we?

Why is there a desire to impose another non-existent narrative onto this? I was celebrating the advancement of Jewish activism. And trying to suggest that other groups are less effective and need support too. Instead, as a reaction to Abbott trying to assert Black rights it is all about anti-semitism. That makes sense in the context of the Labour Party, they have an issue to address. But on a personal level, I have an belief that black people tend to get a raw deal within society, and we should spend more time supporting those who assert black rights - rather than undermine them.

 

[SpurMeUp]

They also have scores of schools and synagogues in North London protected by security because of attacks. To make such a generic comment, likening the prejudice more to a white person with red hair is ridiculous and baffling at the very least.

I can't work out the motivation for her to respond to an article highlighting the hate that the specific groups mentioned received. She has decided to wade in on an argument you could argue she had no right to do

Honestly, why?

I agree Abbott should have done it differently or just set out her own views separately. It doesn't make sense. But if you look at how anti-semitism is called out now, there is a need to assert black issues imo.

 

[Grays_1890]

I agree Abbott should have done it differently or just set out her own views separately. It doesn't make sense. But if you look at how anti-semitism is called out now, there is a need to assert black issues imo.

But TBH the original letter she was responding to wasn't doing that, makes it even weirder wading in.



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[SpurMeUp]

Jews are a race. And a religion. They are both protected characteristics. Hair colour isnt

A lot of the Momentum anti-semitism works by ignoring the race bit. They say Israel but they mean Jew (im absolutely no apologist for Israeli government policy in the West Bank/believe in 1967 borders). Its deliberate and pure racism

You could take any white race. The French race. Travelers etc If people with red hair want protection and recognition, why not? Why shouldn't they have our equal respect? My point was Abbott wades into a discussion on black vs white racism, and it’s turned into a jewish thing. When the area that needs greater work, recognition, support are the rights of black people. Again this is just my opinion.

 

[SpurMeUp]

But TBH the original letter she was responding to wasn't doing that, makes it even weirder wading in.



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Look probably a bit like Bediels book, Abbott is just asserting her side. The article Abbott was responding to was effectively downplaying racism against Caribbean peoples, based on one survey, and emphasising racism against white groups. So Abbott, rather ineffectively, was trying to stress there is injustice, there is an issue with racism based on skin colour. imo that is a fair point. But it was poorly made.

 

[Grays_1890]

Look probably a bit like Bediels book, Abbott is just asserting her side. The article Abbott was responding to was effectively downplaying racism against Caribbean peoples, based on one survey, and emphasising racism against white groups. So Abbott, rather ineffectively, was trying to stress there is injustice, there is an issue with racism based on skin colour. imo that is a fair point. But it was poorly made.

As a Jew I don't find Badiel helpful either TBH. But that's for another time.



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[scaramanga]

All those who benefited from and protected Putin's oligarchs before it became politically unacceptable to do so. In fact iirc, Boris himself gave a speech after the annexation of Crimea not blaming Putin but rather the EU.

You mean until Putin started a war? That seems like a good dividing line to me.

The EU is partly to blame and so is the UK. Both sets of leadership sat by and allowed it to happen without lifting a finger, other than some harmless sanctions. We should have helped Georgia and could have avoided Crimea happening in the first place.

 

[scaramanga]

If people with red hair want protection and recognition, why not? Why shouldn't they have our equal respect?

I thought you were serious until this bit.

 

[scaramanga]

Why is there a desire to impose another non-existent narrative onto this? I was celebrating the advancement of Jewish activism. And trying to suggest that other groups are less effective and need support too. Instead, as a reaction to Abbott trying to assert Black rights it is all about anti-semitism. That makes sense in the context of the Labour Party, they have an issue to address. But on a personal level, I have an belief that black people tend to get a raw deal within society, and we should spend more time supporting those who assert black rights - rather than undermine them.

That's not how your post reads at all.

 

[Robspur12]

You mean until Putin started a war? That seems like a good dividing line to me.

The EU is partly to blame and so is the UK. Both sets of leadership sat by and allowed it to happen without lifting a finger, other than some harmless sanctions. We should have helped Georgia and could have avoided Crimea happening in the first place.

Partly because they were trying to avoid WWIII Hindsight is a great thing in that respect. But both the EU and NATO poked the bear. Boris was being his usual disingenuous self by only blaming the EU when it was politically expedient to do so.

But that "dividing line" you point to, is part of the wider vested interests in the EU and around the world that enabled Putin to squirrel away money and to perpetuate his regime.

 

[Robspur12]

I hear the defence stated that Abbott has faced terrible racist abuse herself. That was also put forward to defend by Priti Patel over her anti migrant language. I emphasise that the abuse aimed at Abbott and Patel is totally unacceptable and I deplore the racists who send this abuse. But the fact that you have been racially abused, is not a shield for you to act or speak in a racist manner imho. Anyone irrespective of colour can act or speak in a way that is racist.

And Racism doesn't have to be vicious either. It can be borne of ignorance. I dont believe that Abbott is viciously antisemitic. I remember interviewing an old boy in the police. He asked me where I was from and I replied South London. He then irritatedly responded with No! Your people where are they from? I replied Mauritius and he said "well your English is good.".

The other thing I have heard today from people defending her is that sacking Diane Abbott would not make their Jewish friends feel any safer. But the problem is if you hold a view that the racism or antisemitism aimed at those outside the black community is not important, if you were to come to power how would you properly protect the victims of it?

So it is important that she is called out no matter how difficult it is for the Labour party.

 

[SpurMeUp]

“What the hell is happening?” he kept saying. Then a pang of guilt struck him when he saw pictures of Samantha on the television looking utterly distraught. “Oh my GHod. Look at Sam. GHod. Poor Sam.” Soon after, stopping in his tracks, a new thought struck him: “Oh brick, we’ve got no plan. We haven’t thought about it. I didn’t think it would happen. Holy crap, what will we do?” Still muttering, he went off to write the speech he knew he would in no time have to deliver.

Those who knew Johnson intimately say they had never seen him more frightened and dismayed than at this moment of triumph.

It is well known that Johnson, and other leading Brexiters, did not expect the UK to vote to leave the EU.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Chief economist at Bank of England says "let them eat cake"

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23481142.bank-england-economist-households-need-accept-poorer/

In one sense I agree about cutting your cloth accordingly and think we are to focused on money to the detriment of everything else. On the other hand the government have so mismanaged the economy, the one thing tories are meant to be good at. So they can fcuk off.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

“What the hell is happening?” he kept saying. Then a pang of guilt struck him when he saw pictures of Samantha on the television looking utterly distraught. “Oh my GHod. Look at Sam. GHod. Poor Sam.” Soon after, stopping in his tracks, a new thought struck him: “Oh brick, we’ve got no plan. We haven’t thought about it. I didn’t think it would happen. Holy crap, what will we do?” Still muttering, he went off to write the speech he knew he would in no time have to deliver.

Those who knew Johnson intimately say they had never seen him more frightened and dismayed than at this moment of triumph.

It is well known that Johnson, and other leading Brexiters, did not expect the UK to vote to leave the EU.

Personally the nuclear brexit was my favourite option. But I agree that I don't think they expected to win, think they wanted an admirable loss where like the Scottish nationalists they could have asked for more and more power but be seen as the plucky underdogs.

The Norway style relationship was probably the only brexit they had a mandate for considering so much of the leave campaign was centred on immigration control.

I honestly don't think brexit has gone far enough, the reason India is such a great placed is because we once governed it. We never invaded Europe and it is why it is such a mess.

Was recently in Brittany and it was nice but I could not help feel it would be so much better if we invaded France. I hate the French.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Personally the nuclear brexit was my favourite option. But I agree that I don't think they expected to win, think they wanted an admirable loss where like the Scottish nationalists they could have asked for more and more power but be seen as the plucky underdogs.

The Norway style relationship was probably the only brexit they had a mandate for considering so much of the leave campaign was centred on immigration control.

I honestly don't think brexit has gone far enough, the reason India is such a great placed is because we once governed it. We never invaded Europe and it is why it is such a mess.

Was recently in Brittany and it was nice but I could not help feel it would be so much better if we invaded France. I hate the French.

Ever considered a job in the diplomatic corp?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Ever considered a job in the diplomatic corp?

Don't want to be part of any group that would have me.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23481142.bank-england-economist-households-need-accept-poorer/

In one sense I agree about cutting your cloth accordingly and think we are to focused on money to the detriment of everything else. On the other hand the government have so mismanaged the economy, the one thing tories are meant to be good at. So they can fcuk off.

That horse has bolted mate, most of population must have the new shiny things NOW whatever it cost.