Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[DTA]

I’m almost sure that we will join the EU again.

It will probably be in ten years or so. When we are desperate unfortunately, when the economic calamity of Brexit has ravaged us and we have the choice of swallowing our pride and asking to be let back in or fading in to obscurity.

In fact we would have to prove ourselves before being let back in. We would have to prove that we would be reliable and stable.

it will mean that we will have to take euro and everything else that goes with it. There would be no rebate. there will be no special deal like we had before.

This is what the Brexiteers have brought down upon us.

Brexit has undoubtedly diminished our country BUT I could understand it if it was for a clear purpose. With everybody pulling in the same direction or even just all the brexiteers pulling in the same direction.

if for instance it was agreed that Brexit was about trying to re-ignite the commonwealth and build a massive worldwide trading block that can compete with America, china and the EU. I could get behind that, even if it failed, it is worth taking that risk for maybe.

Or even if Brexit was to speed up transition to a technology based green economy, which would see the Uk at the forefront of the world in this sector.

but it wasn’t those things, it was just so BOJO could play priminister the predatory capitalists to exploit the Uk population without the safe guards of the EU. The currency traders to short the pound. Etc etc

all the while the poor are even poorer. The middle class are having their wealth syphoned away. And the whole of the Uk is degraded… makes me sad man.

 

[Diamond Lights]

dont really care if we re-join or not. All i want is acknowledgement that people were wrong. Of course, life does not work like that. But reap what you sow.

People wanted this. deal with it. enjoy the Blue passports though.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's interesting. 4% over 2 years? I guess with volume suppliers help to cushion the impacts. But its broadly in line with the 6% quoted for families.

My colleague is moving back from Barcelona to London. Because of Brexit he has to take trains to Paris and get a friend to drive him and his pooch across the border. You can no longer fly or use rail to take a dog across the border apparnetly, thanks to you know what Ridiculous. So many small inefficiencies. A journey that should take 1.5 hours is turned into a 2-day costly journey because of Brexit. It is almost funny.

You can drive across with a dog
Well i did in august
Can’t comment about train or plane though

 

[glasgowspur]

I’m almost sure that we will join the EU again.

It will probably be in ten years or so. When we are desperate unfortunately, when the economic calamity of Brexit has ravaged us and we have the choice of swallowing our pride and asking to be let back in or fading in to obscurity.

In fact we would have to prove ourselves before being let back in. We would have to prove that we would be reliable and stable.

it will mean that we will have to take euro and everything else that goes with it. There would be no rebate. there will be no special deal like we had before.

This is what the Brexiteers have brought down upon us.

Brexit has undoubtedly diminished our country BUT I could understand it if it was for a clear purpose. With everybody pulling in the same direction or even just all the brexiteers pulling in the same direction.

if for instance it was agreed that Brexit was about trying to re-ignite the commonwealth and build a massive worldwide trading block that can compete with America, china and the EU. I could get behind that, even if it failed, it is worth taking that risk for maybe.

Or even if Brexit was to speed up transition to a technology based green economy, which would see the Uk at the forefront of the world in this sector.

but it wasn’t those things, it was just so BOJO could play priminister the predatory capitalists to exploit the Uk population without the safe guards of the EU. The currency traders to short the pound. Etc etc

all the while the poor are even poorer. The middle class are having their wealth syphoned away. And the whole of the Uk is degraded… makes me sad man.

In the correct hands brexit could have been ok, i don't see anyone in politics with the ability to do it though.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Isn't Australia overrun by Camels and Kangaroos? Would happily try either, anyone sampled them?

Kangaroo is a lovely meat. Kind of a cross between beef and venison. Versatile too - ive had it as joints, steak, kebabs and pizzas in Oz. Its a sportspersons favourite because of its health properties

Camel probably taste crap because horse and zebra does. As well as kangaroo, ostrich is the other one that really rivals beef, lamb, deer and goose for taste

 

[AuroRaman]

Are grazing animals so bad? In the UK we don't have big barn cattle feeds where grain is fed to stationary animals. Both sheep and UK cattle eat grass, so the impact is far less. There used to be 50m+ Buffalo in the US alone, freely grazing. I guess it was a good thing humans almost exterminated them.

Yes, extremely bad. Also, we don’t have the super factory farms like they do in the US but ‘welfare’ standards are disgusting in the majority of factory farms here despite being Red Tractor and DEFRA approved. I know everyone claims to eat grass-fed, happy animals who lived to 300 years old and enjoyed classical music whilst being gassed alive, but 99% of all flesh and secretions consumed globally is factory farmed. So even if one doesn’t care about paying to murder other sentient beings against their will or the environment, they should care about putting toxic, trauma-bonded garbage into their systems.

fudging with nature never ends well for humans, we’re seeing that now in no small part due to animal agriculture.

 

[Mikey10]

I’m almost sure that we will join the EU again.

It will probably be in ten years or so. When we are desperate unfortunately, when the economic calamity of Brexit has ravaged us and we have the choice of swallowing our pride and asking to be let back in or fading in to obscurity.

In fact we would have to prove ourselves before being let back in. We would have to prove that we would be reliable and stable.

it will mean that we will have to take euro and everything else that goes with it. There would be no rebate. there will be no special deal like we had before.

This is what the Brexiteers have brought down upon us.

Brexit has undoubtedly diminished our country BUT I could understand it if it was for a clear purpose. With everybody pulling in the same direction or even just all the brexiteers pulling in the same direction.

if for instance it was agreed that Brexit was about trying to re-ignite the commonwealth and build a massive worldwide trading block that can compete with America, china and the EU. I could get behind that, even if it failed, it is worth taking that risk for maybe.

Or even if Brexit was to speed up transition to a technology based green economy, which would see the Uk at the forefront of the world in this sector.

but it wasn’t those things, it was just so BOJO could play priminister the predatory capitalists to exploit the Uk population without the safe guards of the EU. The currency traders to short the pound. Etc etc

all the while the poor are even poorer. The middle class are having their wealth syphoned away. And the whole of the Uk is degraded… makes me sad man.

By far the best post on this subject that I have read on here.

I agree - we’ll be begging to be allowed back in within the decade. The movement in that direction is already well underway. The politicians are lagging behind the people on this one.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Yes, extremely bad. Also, we don’t have the super factory farms like they do in the US but ‘welfare’ standards are disgusting in the majority of factory farms here despite being Red Tractor and DEFRA approved. I know everyone claims to eat grass-fed, happy animals who lived to 300 years old and enjoyed classical music whilst being gassed alive, but 99% of all flesh and secretions consumed globally is factory farmed. So even if one doesn’t care about paying to murder other sentient beings against their will or the environment, they should care about putting toxic, trauma-bonded garbage into their systems.

fudging with nature never ends well for humans, we’re seeing that now in no small part due to animal agriculture.

How can grazing animals be "extremely bad"? When there used to be 60m Buffalo roaming the Americas before white men arrived. One thing is for certain: grazing cows and sheep, which we tend to have in the UK, are infinitely better than a meat factory where an animal is fed grain in a pen within a barn without being able to move.

 

[AuroRaman]

How can grazing animals be "extremely bad"? When there used to 60m Buffalo roaming the Americas before white men arrived. One thing is for certain: grazing cows and sheep, which we tend to have in the UK, are infinitely better than a meat factory where an animal is feed grain in a pen within a barn without being able to move.

In the context of billions and billions of livestock grazing for the sole purpose of human consumption, extremely bad is putting it mildly.

Edit: admittedly I’m also coming from an ethical and moral angle too @SpurMeUp so I’m never going to agree that any form of farming animals for consumption is ok!

 

[SpurMeUp]

In the context of billions and billions of livestock grazing for the sole purpose of human consumption, extremely bad is putting it mildly.

Edit: admittedly I’m also coming from an ethical and moral angle too @SpurMeUp so I’m never going to agree that any form of farming animals for consumption is ok!

What about if you hunted one with a bow and arrow to feed your clan?

 

[Gutter Boy]

How can grazing animals be "extremely bad"? When there used to be 60m Buffalo roaming the Americas before white men arrived. One thing is for certain: grazing cows and sheep, which we tend to have in the UK, are infinitely better than a meat factory where an animal is fed grain in a pen within a barn without being able to move.

You cant factory farm sheep, they just dont tolerate those conditions. So lamb is always effectively free range

 

[AuroRaman]

What about if you hunted one with a bow and arrow to feed your clan?

That’s a very different proposition when it’s literally to survive. I don’t see many arrows flying around the meat counter in Tesco’s though.

 

[AuroRaman]

You cant factory farm sheep, they just dont tolerate those conditions. So lamb is always effectively free range

Not one single animal ‘tolerates’ factory farm conditions.

 

[SpurMeUp]

That’s a very different proposition when it’s literally to survive. I don’t see many arrows flying around the meat counter in Tesco’s though.

You haven't been to the Tottenham store. They lock the customer toilets and close all the manned checkouts by 8 as its so ghetto

There is a more ethical way to eat meat, building on the foundation of our forefathers. @Gutter Boy I am a big fan of venison. Our nomadic ancestors would follow deer herds. We know what prehistoric Brits did, mainly from the heaps of rubbish they threw over their shoulders. We would use the whole animal. The sinew for rope, bows or stitching clothes made of the hide. I am far from perfect, but I'll try to buy a chicken that has moved about and had some kind of life, and I'll use it all. The carcass will make chicken soup. I don't eat meat every day, and try to make it something a bit more special.

 

[DTA]

In the context of billions and billions of livestock grazing for the sole purpose of human consumption, extremely bad is putting it mildly.

Edit: admittedly I’m also coming from an ethical and moral angle too @SpurMeUp so I’m never going to agree that any form of farming animals for consumption is ok!

I respect the sacrifice vegans and vegetarians make on ethical grounds.

But at the same time.

I eat meat, and I don’t believe it is ethically wrong to do so.

but where I think we will agree is that the state of animal welfare is far to low already, and Brexit will make this worse… which is horrific.

 

[Rorschach]

How can grazing animals be "extremely bad"? When there used to be 60m Buffalo roaming the Americas before white men arrived. One thing is for certain: grazing cows and sheep, which we tend to have in the UK, are infinitely better than a meat factory where an animal is fed grain in a pen within a barn without being able to move.

Even ignoring the animal welfare issues, grazing is the biggest driver of deforestation. The land that is used to grow food to force-feed the animals rather than humans is another massive problem. And of course, cows are huge methane producers (way worse than C02) in their own right. Grazing causes soil degradation and is one of the primary causes of eutrophication. There are a bunch of other reasons but overall this is not a disputed issue. Animal farming as we now do it now is a driver of climate change.

And anyway comparing it to a much smaller wild bison herd (which emits less methane per animal anyway) is a pointless comparison. Back then the planet was in balance and didn't have catastrophic GHG build-up like now.

 

[DTA]

You haven't been to the Tottenham store. They lock the customer toilets and close all the manned checkouts by 8 as its so ghetto

There is a more ethical way to eat meat, building on the foundation of our forefathers. @Gutter Boy I am a big fan of venison. Our nomadic ancestors would follow deer herds. We know what prehistoric Brits did, mainly from the heaps of rubbish they threw over their shoulders. We would use the whole animal. The sinew for rope, bows or stitching clothes made of the hide. I am far from perfect, but I'll try to buy a chicken that has moved about and had some kind of life, and I'll use it all. The carcass will make chicken soup. I don't eat meat every day, and try to make it something a bit more special.

that’s pretty close to where I am as well. Didn’t think of using the bones for chicken soup. What’s your recipe?

 

[Rorschach]

You cant factory farm sheep, they just dont tolerate those conditions. So lamb is always effectively free range

They are also the reason why there are no trees on the mountains in most places.

 

[SpurMeUp]

that’s pretty close to where I am as well. Didn’t think of using the bones for chicken soup. What’s your recipe?

Jewish style chicken soup: take off the remaining nice meat and set aside; chuck everything else into a pan of water (fat from the roasting tray, skin, bones). Add a whole onion, whole peeled carrot and boil. People are now taking collagen supplements as a beauty treatment and for bone health. So this kind of food might be quite healthy, idk? Simmer for a couple of hours (with the extractor fan on!). Sive the soup, ditch everything but the liquid. If its too fatty when it cools can skim off some, or not. Chop another carrot and add to the soup with the reserved chicken. Make dumplings out of Mozza meal, egg, water, salt peper, and cook them all in the soup for 15 mins.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Even ignoring the animal welfare issues, grazing is the biggest driver of deforestation. The land that is used to grow food to force-feed the animals rather than humans is another massive problem. And of course, cows are huge methane producers (way worse than C02) in their own right. Grazing causes soil degradation and is one of the primary causes of eutrophication. There are a bunch of other reasons but overall this is not a disputed issue. Animal farming as we now do it now is a driver of climate change.

And anyway comparing it to a much smaller wild bison herd (which emits less methane per animal anyway) is a pointless comparison. Back then the planet was in balance and didn't have catastrophic GHG build-up like now.

Although to be fair, the grass-grazed animals farmed on our shores are more comparable to smaller wild herds. Brexit has seen us open up trade with Australian beef which is linked to deforestation.

We have 5m cows appx in the UK. 10% of the 50-70m that no longer graze the plains in the Americas. The US apparently has 94m cows now. The vast majority are the grain-fed-in-a-barn type - which provides the data for most of the studies you reference.