-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Where is the money!?
A straight question. But you can't answer. Do you want cuts to the NHS to pay for Brexit? Y/N.
Where has the EU money gone? Did it ever exist? Y/N
What happened to less immigration? Has it decreased post Brexit? Y/N
Can you outline one benefit of Brexit? Y/N
Can you tell me an EU law that has changed post-Brexit that has uplifted your life or someone else's? Y/N
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Inflation. Look at the OBR stats - 4% less GDP each year as a result of Brexit. We already discussed this. This is where people's bias, stops them being objective.
Not 2015.
You are asking questions about something i haven't spoken about.
I said, that there would not be another referendum on joining the eu, because it would be political suicide for either party to suggest it. I gave an example of the 2015 election results. That's it.
Gdp and tax are 2 different things.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Tax receipts will rise with inflation. You can see the trend over the years? Add with very high inflation tax receipts will jump up. But nurses wages etc have to go up too. GDP simply measures the UK economy - all the goods and services sold in the UK. Almost every sale has tax applied. The OBR say our economy is 4% smaller each year as a result of Brexit. That equates to less tax, approximately £40b less a year.
Now...how would you like to pay for the shortfall?
Last edited:
You understand what a strawman argument is?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Yes. But in this instance it is more a case of you covering your ears and singing lalalalala I can't hear you
And I don't blame you. You are wedded to a forlorn movement, which wasn't really a movement at all sadly. Pretty much everything Brexit was supposed to do, has failed. Unless you can enlighten us where the benefits are?Less GDP = less tax = less money for the NHS, schools etc.
More immigration is one way the UK can now grow its economy.
There is now less investment into the UK.
Less freedom for us and future generations to travel, live or work abroad.
...and you can't name a single thing that was positive post-Brexit. Or where the 350m a week has gone. Or why we have more immigration, not less. You are a very objective, intelligent person - I know this - but it goes out the window on this one. This isn't backing a football team, this is about whether your local hospital has the funding it needs. Whether schools will be able to spend more money on teachers etc
Time to get real on this. Then maybe just maybe, we can fix some of the issues.
Last edited:
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Its not about economics. Its about democracy. You cant give just away people's votes meaning something, making all future elections pointless. Brexit was always about undoing that damage Major inflicted with Maastrict
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Zero chance of the same deal again. The talk of a Swiss-like deal is also a version of cakeism. The way negotiations have proceeded over the years and what is still going on with the NIP negotiations has eroded all trust. The UK will try to rejoin in some fashion in a few years but it will be on less favorable terms.
Yes. But in this instance it is more a case of you covering your ears and singing lalalalala I can't hear you
Less GDP = tax = less money for the NHS, schools etc.
More immigration is one way the UK can now grow its economy.
There is now less investment into the UK.
Less freedom for us and future generations to travel, live or work abroad.
...and you can't name a single thing that was positive post-Brexit. Or where the 350m a week has gone. Or why we have more immigration, not less. You are a very objective, intelligent person - I know this - but it goes out the window on this one. This isn't backing a football team, this is about whether your local hospital has the funding it needs. Whether schools will be able to spend more money on teachers etc
Time to get real on this. Then maybe just maybe, we can fix some of the issues.
Maybe reread what i posted. I didn't say if brexit was right or wrong.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
The countries in the EU didn't want us to leave.
If the choice was simply: rejoin on the same terms or not at all, do you think the nations in the EU would vote to keep the UK out?
Last edited:
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
The ones with power would love us back
The ones with less power wouldn’t as we are an example of changing the status quo…. And I’m mot saying it’s better, but it’s different
It’s like FIFA.. the lesser powerful countries still have the same voting rights dont they?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
It would have to be unanimous. But even the French would probably approve it
It does only take one nation to scupper it, and the longer we're out the harder it gets (as we change laws), but as things stand, I think every country in the EU would welcome us back.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
we’re not crying over it, we’re drowning in it
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
No they didn't, and the EU would welcome the UK (or England!) back but rejoining on the same terms will not be an option. That is not a choice that will need to be made. There is no clammer in the EU for the UK to rejoin either, and certainly not in the halls of the EU bureaucracy where I have some connections. There have been years-long efforts to untangle the UK from the EU systems and little appetite to do that work in reverse any time soon. Brexit has dropped out of EU public consciousness everywhere except maybe Ireland, and that is because of the NIP. So IMO the UK doesn't really have much in terms of negotiating leverage if they choose to return, and the reality is it probably never did.
One thing I have noticed in the British press in recent months is that the Brexit omerta seems to have been broken in places that have studiously avoided mentioning it to date.
Last edited:
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
The silence is in politics. The Torys very gently socialised a Swiss model via an article in the Times, and all the usual suspects came out as entrenched as ever. The Sun especially, running a couple of stories to bolster Brexit defences. But it is based on paper-thin arguments that get weaker by the day. How long can the likes of the Sun ignore the immigration figures, the hole in public finances and keep banging the same Brexit benefits drum when they don't exist?
The EU Commission will advise EU nations, but ultimately it is the national leaders of each country that would make the decision on the UK. The Commission are beholden to them. Would there be a 'punishment' for the UK? Pragmatically no I don't think so. A bit like with war and peace deals, such punitive measures only cause more trouble and grief. The UK, with nefarious funding sent from Russia, was certainly manipulated with people sold something that did not exist. The staunch support for the EU that followed in the UK was apparent. Ultimately, is the EU strong with the UK or not? We would still be net contributors, so there is a clear logic.
Too much water under the bridge for an about-turn? Well yes. That is true, and we won't see the UK or the EU have to face this question anytime soon, sadly.
Well you better learn to swim, cause it isn't going to be reversed in this generation.