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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Rorschach said:
It's all I eat.
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latest
 
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Mikey10 said:
Yip. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle now.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ery-says-bank-governor?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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The problem is everyone is sick of it. It was boring even before the vote. No one wants to admit or engage with it, even those who have been proved correct are sick to the teeth with Brisket. You just want an adult politician to come out say look this costs us 40b+ in lost tax, its all a bit brick, I've negotiated a re-entry on Camron's terms. We'll also control freedom of movement by registering and sending back people. We're going to invest in UK skills, and have a UK tradesman quality certificate etc. I never want to talk about it again. Done.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The problem is everyone is sick of it. It was boring even before the vote. No one wants to admit or engage with it, even those who have been proved correct are sick to the teeth with Brisket. You just want an adult politician to come out say look this costs us 40b+ in lost tax, its all a bit brick, I've negotiated a re-entry on Camron's terms. We'll also control freedom of movement by registering and sending back people. We're going to invest in UK skills, and have a UK tradesman quality certificate etc. I never want to talk about it again. Done.
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I wondered what happened to you Jo Swinson
 
DTA said:
Your comment surprises me. @Gutter Boy is in Lala land. His left wing libertarian musings are incoherent.

worse he is simply deflecting from the fact that his beloved Brexit has seriously damaged the country.

That goes for every other Brexiteer as well, you have all damaged the country you live in and it’s people’s lives will be made harder because of your actions.
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Interesting and fascinating ideas. I still think Brexit is self harm.
 
Important to remember, that this government hid the Brexit impact assessments and claimed they didn’t exist, they knew this was coming, and did it anyway.

Solely to avoid the rift in their own party becoming a split.
 
Rorschach said:
Here's the start of the pivot back.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594035405703225345

Labour needs to get its brick together. It will be left holding the Brexit baby.
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I'm clinging to the hope that they are just being smart until they are back in power, don't give the fascists the "they want to take Brexit away from you" platform to run on, make them run on something else, which will be something they have fudged into the ground over the last 12 years.
 
Baleforce said:
I'm clinging to the hope that they are just being smart until they are back in power, don't give the fascists the "they want to take Brexit away from you" platform to run on, make them run on something else, which will be something they have fudged into the ground over the last 12 years.
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I thought that for a while too, but now I am not sure that is the strategy at all. The polls are only going one way on this. The tories will change tack soon, of that I have no doubt. They are first and foremost about clinging to power by whatever means. However, talks of a Swiss-style arrangement is a non-runner. Zero chance anything like this will be considered, though some other arrangement might be.
 
Rorschach said:
I thought that for a while too, but now I am not sure that is the strategy at all. The polls are only going one way on this. The tories will change tack soon, of that I have no doubt. They are first and foremost about clinging to power by whatever means. However, talks of a Swiss-style arrangement is a non-runner. Zero chance anything like this will be considered, though some other arrangement might be.
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yeah, wouldn't be considered by the other side at the moment either
 
Rorschach said:
I thought that for a while too, but now I am not sure that is the strategy at all. The polls are only going one way on this. The tories will change tack soon, of that I have no doubt. They are first and foremost about clinging to power by whatever means. However, talks of a Swiss-style arrangement is a non-runner. Zero chance anything like this will be considered, though some other arrangement might be.
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There is a fundamental problem, which is Brexiteers mainly, now understand that versions of soft Brexit are worse than being in the EU.

That was obvious from the start to some. The foolhardy are still clinging to a belief that there is gold at the end of this rainbow. Mainly because their egos are so invested, they can't unwind their position after being so fully vested in the dreams of Brexit. How long do you give Brexit to bear fruit? If you kick the can along long enough you can avoid facing the reality: the UK is poorer, less efficient, and more marginal outside of cooperation with our closest neighbors.
 
SpurMeUp said:
There is a fundamental problem, which is Brexiteers mainly, now understand that versions of soft Brexit are worse than being in the EU.

That was obvious from the start to some. The foolhardy are still clinging to a belief that there is gold at the end of this rainbow. Mainly because their egos are so invested, they can't unwind their position after being so fully vested in the dreams of Brexit. How long do you give Brexit to bear fruit? If you kick the can along long enough you can avoid facing the reality: the UK is poorer, less efficient, and more marginal outside of cooperation with our closest neighbors.
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A decent brexit was achievable, just not with the muppets that we have.
A sensible forward looking politician with the countries best interests at heart could have minimised the damage.
We don't have anyone like that in our politics, hasn't been for quite a while and i don't see ine on the horizon.
 
glasgowspur said:
A decent brexit was achievable, just not with the muppets that we have.
A sensible forward looking politician with the countries best interests at heart could have minimised the damage.
We don't have anyone like that in our politics, hasn't been for quite a while and i don't see ine on the horizon.
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A ‘decent Brexit’ was possible, but all that meant was a less damaging one. It was still suboptimal. A Norway model, Swiss model etc. All versions of soft Brexit involve observing EU rules (which is pragmatic as we don’t need to pay for our own pharmaceutical, aviation, car regulator etc). Norway get to say they are out of the EU but they get regulations emailed over to them that they have no say in at all. The problem with ‘reasonable’ or ‘decent’ Brexit is it quickly becomes apparent it is far better to be helping to dictate the rules within the heart of the EU.

So where does that leave the deluded Brexiteers? Well firstly it shows their nativity as in the run up to the vote they didn’t understand this problem, many like Farrage supported a Norway like model. They didn’t really think it through. And now we are here, none of these muppets have a vision for post-Brexit Britain. Sadly, those who promised a lot were the more deluded and naive politicians within the gene pool. In other words: the least able to deliver.

We could resolve 90% of the issues by pivoting to a Norway or Switzerland like model. But we’d be taking it from the EU and be less sovereign than when we started this ill gotten process.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
A ‘decent Brexit’ was possible, but all that meant was a less damaging one. It was still suboptimal. A Norway model, Swiss model etc. All versions of soft Brexit involve observing EU rules (which is pragmatic as we don’t need to pay for our own pharmaceutical, aviation, car etc regulator). Norway get to say they are out of the EU but they get regulations emailed over to them that they have no say in at all. The problem with ‘reasonable’ or ‘decent’ Brexit is it quickly becomes apparent it is far better to be helping to dictate the rules within the heart of the EU.

So where does that leave the deluded Brexiteers? Well firstly it shows their nativity as in the run up to the vote they didn’t understand this problem, many like Farrage supported a Norway like model. They didn’t really think it through. And now we are here, none of these muppets have a vision for post-Brexit Britain. Sadly, those who promised a lot were the more deluded and naive politicians within the gene pool. In other words: the least able to deliver.

We could resolve 90% of the issues by pivoting to a Norway or Switzerland like model. But we’d be taking it from the EU and be less sovereign than when we started this ill gotten process.
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I agree, i voted remain for two reasons.
Firstly, for all that i believe that the EU is flawed and needs reform it is easier to do so from the inside and the benefits still out way the drawbacks, no matter how soft a brexit we had.
Secondly, i don't see anyone out there in politics capable of delivering a reasonable deal nevermind a good one.
 
glasgowspur said:
I agree, i voted remain for two reasons.
Firstly, for all that i believe that the EU is flawed and needs reform it is easier to do so from the inside and the benefits still out way the drawbacks, no matter how soft a brexit we had.
Secondly, i don't see anyone out there in politics capable of delivering a reasonable deal nevermind a good one.
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the only real way for Brexit to maybe work would be completely unpalatable for the majority of Brexiteers and even then it would be even more short term pain for possible gain in the future.

we would have to replicate EU within the commonwealth. Starting with the smaller countries and building a critical mass before hopefully attracting Canada, Australia, NZ etc.

Commonwealth countries like Nigeria will see one in every 10 people born on the planet within the next (50 years or so), they have natural resources and an enterprising workforce with entrepreneurship as a key part of their culture. They will be a major player going forward.

they do of course have some problems as well.

And this is the bit that the Brexiteers will hate:

freedom of movement will be an integral part of such a union, without freedom of movement it doesn’t work. And I’m talking economically, not ethically.

even if that was palatable for the rac… I mean Brexiteers (joking I know not all of you are racist) it would still mean a hell of a lot of short term pain or at least change as the economies in the new commonwealth union re-balance.
 
DTA said:
the only real way for Brexit to maybe work would be completely unpalatable for the majority of Brexiteers and even then it would be even more short term pain for possible gain in the future.

we would have to replicate EU within the commonwealth. Starting with the smaller countries and building a critical mass before hopefully attracting Canada, Australia, NZ etc.

Commonwealth countries like Nigeria will see one in every 10 people born on the planet within the next (50 years or so), they have natural resources and an enterprising workforce with entrepreneurship as a key part of their culture. They will be a major player going forward.

they do of course have some problems as well.

And this is the bit that the Brexiteers will hate:

freedom of movement will be an integral part of such a union, without freedom of movement it doesn’t work. And I’m talking economically, not ethically.

even if that was palatable for the rac… I mean Brexiteers (joking I know not all of you are racist) it would still mean a hell of a lot of short term pain or at least change as the economies in the new commonwealth union re-balance.
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Or just not be so extremely neo-liberal.

Embrace things such as state aid, a finite workforce, investment in skills.

And work on the principle of fair trade, not free trade. Free trade is fundamentally exploitative
 
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