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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Mordaunt needs to hang on until about 1:45 tomorrow before folding, otherwise there's still a chance another far right lunatic will step up and then win the party vote
 
Just read his statement, couldn't come across any more arrogantly. Basically I'm great and it's everyone else's fault they're not supporting me.
 
Mikey10 said:
For what it’s worth, I’m not sure he’ll stand. I think he might say Sunak has the support of most MPs and he’ll stand aside “for the good of the country.” He’ll then try to wriggle out of anything the Standards Committee might find and will attempt to re-launch himself as the Conservative’s saviour after a term of Labour government.

(I’ll probably be proved completely wrong by this evening, mind you. :D)
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Let me know if you want next week’s winning lottery numbers. :D
 
Lost Mango said:
Not the point I'm making.

Whether I supported it or not the scientific/mathematical significance doesn't change.
Basically making such massive decisions on what was as meaningful as a coin toss seems insane. Either way.

My bigger issue though is the follow up that morphs into an unquestionable 'will of the people' as some homogenous mass, like the 'huge' majority the Tories has somehow represents more than 50% of the people rather than the 27% it really does. Why can't there be acknowledgment that actually significant minorities (or even majorities) actually disagree and other points of views still retain validity?

Democracy, as in following the voice of the majority, does not depend on that meaning any other dissent is then ignored or 'never existed'.
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You raise some decent and fair points about democracy in the generic sense.
However, the brexit vote was very specific and simplified because the idea was to close the debate once and for all; Cameron had promised to offer the public a vote (even if he didn't really expect the vote to go the way it did) just as a desperate election pledge to stay on as PM. Whilst the actual question on the ballot was simple, the debate and engagement (for and against staying in the EU) was VERY detailed and imo very meaningful.

What you say about "following the voice of the majority" not meaning other voices aren't relevant is, as i say, a fair refelection of the issues and limitations of democracy as a whole: it can also be said for any election result ever taken in politics.

Anyway, i'm sure we might not totally agree on the above but i thought i'd take the time to reply in anycase...
 
Doesn't matter if Sunak wins, chaos will still ensue. For one he still carries too much personal baggage around his tax affairs, his green card and his wife's non Dom status. Secondly there is a wing of the Tory parliamentary party as well as most of the membership that despise him for dethroning their King.

The right thing and probably the best thing for the country is a GE. But with the Tories commanding such a big majority, there is no chance of that happening. The mandate stuff is complete hogwash. Things have changed so significantly since 2019.
 
Robspur12 said:
Doesn't matter if Sunak wins, chaos will still ensue. For one he still carries too much personal baggage around his tax affairs, his green card and his wife's non Dom status. Secondly there is a wing of the Tory parliamentary party as well as most of the membership that despise him for dethroning their King.

The right thing and probably the best thing for the country is a GE. But with the Tories commanding such a big majority, there is no chance of that happening. The mandate stuff is complete hogwash. Things have changed so significantly since 2019.
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I think after the last 2.5 years, 80% of the population, and about the same with the Tory MPs, will settle for a boring technocrat who can do a tiny bit better impression of a human being than the last 3. A GE would/will be amazing, but less pantomime for a bit will appease some of the blood lust I think.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I think after the last 2.5 years, 80% of the population, and about the same with the Tory MPs, will settle for a boring technocrat who can do a tiny bit better impression of a human being than the last 3. A GE would/will be amazing, but less pantomime for a bit will appease some of the blood lust I think.
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Out of interest, who do you think could/would fit that description right now?
 
Gutter Boy said:
Both Sunak and Starmer actually. Sunak's obviously quite evil to boot. But he's pretty uncharismatic and seems reasonably competent.
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Sunak has enough charisma.
He's quite sharp and very good in debates justifying positions and delivering a convincing message.
I think Starmer will struggle with him because he'll be confident, knowledgeable but not the bombastic lier of Johnson or the (I don't even know how to describe it) of Truss
 
monkeybarry said:
Sunak has enough charisma.
He's quite sharp and very good in debates justifying positions and delivering a convincing message.
I think Starmer will struggle with him because he'll be confident, knowledgeable but not the bombastic lier of Johnson or the (I don't even know how to describe it) of Truss
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I wouldn't fully agree with that. Sunak folds under pressure is what I have seen. Anytime he is properly challenged he runs or goes to pieces. He hasn't developed the basic self-defense mechanisms that Boris had (lies and bluster) or even Truss (repeat the same talking point ad infinitum). I think he'll get ripped to shreds at PMQs as he tries to actually answer the questions. And don't forget the overlapping crisis created by the last two charlatans have not gone away and this is what he will be trying to defend. The utter failure of the last two prime ministers may make him look like a better option, and he is relatively speaking, but he'll just be brick in a different way.
 
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