Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Are we peasant shooting tomorrow? Sorry, I meant pheasant shooting.
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Not an easy discussion to be had, but it’s one we have to be able to talk about. I don’t think Muslims should be answerable for atrocities carried out by a very tiny minority any more than white people born 20 years ago should be held responsible for acts of slavery and imperialism carried out by our ancestors from hundreds of years ago. That said, I really don’t know how we solve terrorism. I don’t think white Christians or atheists lecturing Muslims is going to help reform terrorists or stop people being radicalised, but it’s a problem nonetheless and I would suggest people who are susceptible to brainwashing would be more likely to listen to prominent Muslim world leaders and people within their own communities as opposed to an “outsider”.
I don’t endorse or necessarily agree with everything spur me up has posted today. But I’m uncomfortable with people calling him out as racist or accusing him of saying something racist. Obviously racism should always be rejected and called out, but in situations like this where I do not believe it to be the case, I think it’s entirely wrong, unhelpful and actually quite illiberal. All it does it shut down debate (which I guess is what some people want). Why can’t we be critical of bad ideas even if they come from a religion without being called racist? If we were to be critical of Mormonism or Catholicism for example, the word “racist” doesn’t get thrown about. If you were targeting certain people or a race within a religion then absolutely that is racist. But as others have pointed out, Chinese Muslims exist as do white Muslims, black Muslims etc. Islam has over a billion followers/believers that must cover many ethnicities/races.
I don’t endorse or necessarily agree with everything spur me up has posted today. But I’m uncomfortable with people calling him out as racist or accusing him of saying something racist. Obviously racism should always be rejected and called out, but in situations like this where I do not believe it to be the case, I think it’s entirely wrong, unhelpful and actually quite illiberal. All it does it shut down debate (which I guess is what some people want). Why can’t we be critical of bad ideas even if they come from a religion without being called racist? If we were to be critical of Mormonism or Catholicism for example, the word “racist” doesn’t get thrown about. If you were targeting certain people or a race within a religion then absolutely that is racist. But as others have pointed out, Chinese Muslims exist as do white Muslims, black Muslims etc. Islam has over a billion followers/believers that must cover many ethnicities/races.
dude he literally called for ‘a more subtle version of the Chinese re-education camps’
read concentration camps where Muslims (not all terrorists) are systematically raped, sterilised, beaten, brain washed and possibly worse.
im struggling to find a more abhorrent suggestion.
the rest of that particular post he wrote was fine and maybe Warrents discussion, but he then went in to group all Muslims together and state that ‘Muslims’ should apologise harder…
@LutonSpurs is now printing out leaflets to post to all his neighbours and surrounding areas to make sure he has apologised enough
personally I dont think he has done enough, the minimum he should do is take out some radio ads maybe remortgage his house and go big on national TV.
that’s a simple way to look at it. How much did religion influence the laws that we have today?
I agree that consenting adults should put private bits in each other as much as they want, especially if custard is involved.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Sláinte (health) in my neck of the woods. I'll file away Yarasin for the next Turk I meet (I've not met many)
I have a complicated relationship with climate change. I'm not a tree hugger. Pragmatism is probably the best way to describe it maybe. IMO we won't engineer our way out of this mess because solutions are not the problem. The tech is not lacking, it is the political will that is letting us down. Waiting for some magic battery, new power source or carbon capture device is another form of saviour syndrome. Great if it comes along but it is a can-kicking exercise (mentally).
And to finish up with this (as I'm out of wine) I will say the timescales are way worse than people think. Sorry
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These discussions should have been had decades ago. They weren't and won't be. It's political suicide for a mainstream politicians to talk about. So you will have the farage's and other fringe voices talk about it. Yet find they are not so fringe. Then populists will jump on it. Then bam. Brexit etc...
Sláinte (health) in my neck of the woods. I'll file away Yarasin for the next Turk I meet (I've not met many)
I have a complicated relationship with climate change. I'm not a tree hugger. Pragmatism is probably the best way to describe it maybe. IMO we won't engineer our way out of this mess because solution are not the problem. The tech is not lacking, it is the political will that is letting us down. Waiting for some magic battery, new power source or carbon capture device is another form of saviour syndrome. Great if it comes along but it is a can-kicking exercise (mentally).
And to finish up with this (as I'm out of wine) I will say the timescales are way worse than people think. Sorry
there is actually some interesting interactions and history between the Ottomans and the Irish, especially at the time of the famine. Look it up or I can point you in the direction if you like. I believe a town in Ireland and it’s football team still bares the ottoman state arms emblem because of it.
talk about it absolutely, but do so in an education and not ignorant way.
Sláinte (health) in my neck of the woods. I'll file away Yarasin for the next Turk I meet (I've not met many)
I have a complicated relationship with climate change. I'm not a tree hugger. Pragmatism is probably the best way to describe it maybe. IMO we won't engineer our way out of this mess because solution are not the problem. The tech is not lacking, it is the political will that is letting us down. Waiting for some magic battery, new power source or carbon capture device is another form of saviour syndrome. Great if it comes along but it is a can-kicking exercise (mentally).
And to finish up with this (as I'm out of wine) I will say the timescales are way worse than people think. Sorry
Disagree. Probably for the climate change thread though.
Government doesn't have to force it through. They have to support it enough so that it becomes viable. Once it gets momentum (as it is now) then it starts becoming profitable (hence no need for subsidies for windfarms any more). Then others jump in.
Everything has to be done in step though. We couldn't go full renewable, the grid would collapse. We can't now as we need energy storage and connectors with other countries.
We will see articles that we have to invest a certain amount each year to meet our targets. But that's bs. This is exponential.
Will it be enough or are we already fudged is a different question.
Totally intrigued by this. Send directions please.
the story from memory goes something like this.
The sultan at the time heard about the plight of the Irish during the famine so tried to send considerable financial aid, but the English queen refused this as it was more than what the crown had sent to Ireland.
so the sultan agreed to send half of what the queen sent to avoid a international incident. But also covertly sent large ships filled with aid (food I’m guessing) which landed in a port in Ireland that bares still bares the ottoman arms in remembrance.
I’m off to bed now but will look for some links tomorrow.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Well I disagree with that because of the timescales. The market has momentum which is fantastic, as does the zeitgeist of the population, both of which is like a cat licking your balls for climate guys like me, I've heard. But it is still not going to happen soon enough because we (globally) are not all marching to the same drum. Anyway something for the climate thread, tomorrow maybe. I'm fading.
I have some suggestions yeah, some unpalatable like increased surveillance across the board. Limiting free speech when it comes to extremism and intolerance across the board.
No concentration camps though…
will get in to it more tomorrow if you like and remind me, time for some Zzzzs now
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
It is hard not to respond when people say you called for things that you did not.
Please get your facts right. I did not call for these camps. I opened a discussion re. responses to radical Islam. Over and over and over I constantly said that I don't believe Chinese camps locking innocent Muslims up are anything but abhorrent. You choose to ignore this, and that is on you.
Most moral principles within Islam, Christianity, Buddhism etc. make sense, for example: one should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated. I hope those who name call and defame do not have the same done to them or their families. Discrimination in all guises is worth calling out.
That said, I greatly respect posters who wished to defend Islam (even though I was never attacking the religion and have constantly from post one been clear about a distinction between radical and non-radical forms of faith). There are many unconscious biases and prejudices against Islam in our society, probably because most news stories relating to Islam are negative. I can totally understand (and even appreciate) people wishing to shut down anything that hints at a negative criticism. It is not an easy thing to talk about. I regretted it and apologised for it. Never the less Libaz makes a valid point, if you can't have an open discussion about radical Islam and how to address it, without being vilified and chased out, you only let the issue fester creating greater polarisation.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Not at all, apparently.
Dawkins, Harris and all the other usual suspects regularly link studies showing that there's no causal link between religion and objective morality. In fact, there's a reasonably strong correlation at a national level between secularity and morality (Sweden/Denmark Vs Iran/Saudi Arabia, for example).
Morality is much like the scientific process - it constantly evolves and is shaped by regular testing, with an active input from the one being moral. Religion was set (literally) in stone in the Stone Age and just isn't relevant to the modern world.
Fishing for pike today on the Chichester canal, followed by a pub lunch at the Spotted Cow (assuming the eldest isn't bored and desperate to be back on the PS5 by that point).