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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

milo said:
Your opening comment was supporting a crime against humanity

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/p...-xinjiang-amounts-to-crimes-against-humanity/

After that you have been holding all Muslims responsible for the actions of individual Muslims. That is racist.
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Did he? I think that's unfair. He has made an effort to differentiate between islamists and muslims. He has said that the muslim community needs to condone the attacks. Which i actually think they have done although it's not publicised as much as it should.

Throwing out the racist accusation i think is unfair and uncalled for.
 
Lilbaz said:
Have we ever had a capitalist system though? We might call it such but we have socialist principles in there. Police, fire, roads...

We are somewhere in between the 2. Or 4 if we go by the political compass.
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my reference to you was about atheist philosophy and
Friedrich Nietzsche.

But yes we have a mixed economic system and that’s the way it should be unfettered anything is bad. I’m 100% with you on that.
 
Lilbaz said:
Did he? I think that's unfair. He has made an effort to differentiate between islamists and muslims. He has said that the muslim community needs to condone the attacks. Which i actually think they have done although it's not publicised as much as it should.

Throwing out the racist accusation i think is unfair and uncalled for.
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dude he talked about the Chinese concentration camps.

where Muslims are being sterilised raped and beaten because they are Muslim… not terrorist but just Muslims… unless you think there is 1m plus terrorist in china????

everything else he said was ok in that particular post and maybe deserves discussion.

but don’t cite concentration camps as a solution ever.
 
Lilbaz said:
Did he? I think that's unfair. He has made an effort to differentiate between islamists and muslims. He has said that the muslim community needs to condone the attacks. Which i actually think they have done although it's not publicised as much as it should.

Throwing out the racist accusation i think is unfair and uncalled for.
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It is racist to hold the community responsible for the actions of an individual. British Muslims are no more responsible for this murder than SpurMeUp is for Thomas Mair's murder of Jo Cox.

It's also ignorant of the widespread condemnation that has been expressed by all mainstream Muslim groups in the UK following the murder.
 
milo said:
Your opening comment was supporting a crime against humanity

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/p...-xinjiang-amounts-to-crimes-against-humanity/

After that you have been holding all Muslims responsible for the actions of individual Muslims. That is racist.
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Everything you have written is untrue. It is also defamatory. I expected more from you.

Fwiw I regret having this discussion. Even though I think there are positives and things to learn from it and improve upon. But I am truly sorry the likes of Milo have found it divisive and have clearly got the wrong end of the stick.
 
DTA said:
dude he talked about the Chinese concentration camps.

where Muslims are being sterilised raped and beaten because they are Muslim… not terrorist but just Muslims… unless you think there is 1m plus terrorist in china????

everything else he said was ok in that particular post and maybe deserves discussion.

but don’t cite concentration camps as a solution ever.
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I'm not agreeing with that. Pull him as much as you want on that. But i never heard him say all muslims should be put in concentration camps. Or all muslims are terrorists.

Argue what he said. Not what he didn't. He might be a racist for all i know or muslim. Aint got a clue.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Everything you have written is untrue. It is also defamatory. I expected more from you.

Fwiw I regret having this discussion. Even though I think there are positives and things to learn from it and improve upon. But I am truly sorry the likes of Milo have found it divisive and have clearly got the wrong end of the stick.
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What is untrue? That you said:

SpurMeUp said:
even the Chinese re-education programmes applied with more subtly shouldn't be ruled out.
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Let's be clear. These are concentration camps where Chinese Muslims are tortured, sterilised, separated from their children and harvested for organs. Not because they are extremists but because of their faith.
 
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milo said:
It is racist to hold the community responsible for the actions of an individual. British Muslims are no more responsible for this murder than SpurMeUp is for Thomas Mair's murder of Jo Cox.

It's also ignorant of the widespread condemnation that has been expressed by all mainstream Muslim groups in the UK following the murder.
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Is he holding them responsible? Or just asking they do more to root it out?

Not all catholics are paedophiles, but i'd call on all catholics to condemn what the paedophile priests got up to, or the scouts or whatever grouping.
 
Lilbaz said:
I'm not agreeing with that. Pull him as much as you want on that. But i never heard him say all muslims should be put in concentration camps. Or all muslims are terrorists.

Argue what he said. Not what he didn't. He might be a racist for all i know or muslim. Aint got a clue.
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I don’t think he ias a racist at all, or even anti Muslim. I actually like and agree with a lot of his post.

but fück me when he talked about using ‘more subtle’ versions of the Chinese concentration camps that shït should be unacceptable and scary to everyone.
 
@SpurMeUp I've had some serious conversations on here over the years and I've experienced some racism on here and one of them was today with your posts. I'm not somebody who loves the race card. And I hope others can testify that I'm very tolerant and chilled with these topics. But you posted offensive racist tropes today. You can listen to me or tell me I've misunderstood you. It's your words written on here.
 
Lilbaz said:
Is he holding them responsible? Or just asking they do more to root it out?

Not all catholics are paedophiles, but i'd call on all catholics to condemn what the paedophile priests got up to, or the scouts or whatever grouping.
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who is they?

most paedophiles are white, should “white people” do more to weed it out?

If so… what are you doing to weed it out?
 
milo said:
What is untrue? That you said:



Let's be clear. These are concentration camps where Chinese Muslims are tortured, sterilised, separated from their children and harvested for organs. Not because they are extremists but because of their faith.
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Where did I mention concentration camps. That has all come from others. And then you say I "hold all Muslims responsible for the actions of individual Muslims." Just complete nonsense. I am appalled by your conduct. Calling someone racist is a serious thing. Go have a look in the mirror before you attack others.
 
People need to stop assuming that Muslims are a monolithic homogeneous cult who all think alike and have community leaders who speak for them all. Most of us are 2nd and 3rd generation. We are all individual and we all have varying degrees of faith. Many of us are culturally Muslim but we hold on to our identity as we have every fukin right to.

When I say something, it is me saying what I believe. My Mrs and Kids may have totally contrary views to me. That's considered normal for any other group but for us we have to prove we are not the same and it is fukin tiring lads. Honestly.
 
LutonSpurs said:
@SpurMeUp I've had some serious conversations on here over the years and I've experienced some racism on here and one of them was today with your posts. I'm not somebody who loves the race card. And I hope others can testify that I'm very tolerant and chilled with these topics. But you posted offensive racist tropes today. You can listen to me or tell me I've misunderstood you. It's your words written on here.
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I am truly sorry you feel that way. I genuinely don't know what I have posted that is racist.
 
DTA said:
correct. And this is relevant to @Lilbaz point about philosophy and @scaramanga previous points. Friedrich Nietzsche The darling of the atheists (and a brilliant mind for that matter) when he proclaimed “the death of ghod” he also said some thing like:

there will not be enough water in the world to wash away the blood because of this

And The capatalist system with all its many faults have still in part brought us here, the best time in human history to exist. Is it perfect? Fück no, and we can continue to improve but let us not throw everything away. Same with religion it played a major part in bringing us to where we are today
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Yes, this is probably the best time to live as a human in terms of creature comforts, wars, medicine, etc. We are in the land of milk and honey, well if you are one of the lucky ones. And yes capitalism is a primary driver of this improvement in the human condition but it is flawed. And not just something that can be fixed by tinkering around the edge. It is a fatally flawed system that feeds off greed and the basest instincts of human nature. And more importantly at this time, it has led us to the brink.

All of it, all our progress is in many ways based on the energy derived from burning fossil fuels. Our addiction to our current lifestyle driven by the unfettered capitalism of the last decades will be the death of us, literally. We are operating outside of the boundaries the planet has set for us and capitalism cannot correct course because that is not its raison d'être.

Anyway, back to the wine.
 
We were talking about violent extremists. Whether white, brown or any colour. I am really quite sickened that people draw racism from this. I don't think it stands up personally. But I am sorry never the less.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Where did I mention concentration camps. That has all come from others. And then you say I "hold all Muslims responsible for the actions of individual Muslims." Just complete nonsense. I am appalled by your conduct. Calling someone racist is a serious thing. Go have a look in the mirror before you attack others.
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dude… and I like you man and agree with a lot of your views, I think you are intelligent and progressive, I really do.

you said more subtle version of the Chinese education camps… you said it. It’s quoted.

the Chinese call them education camps but they are concentration camps.

how the hell can you defend that?
 
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