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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

LutonSpurs said:
Being born somewhere is not the same as wanting to live in a top end Hilton.
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So let's assume the same except that I was born in Mayfair.

I can't afford to live in Mayfair, although I would very much like to. So I live somewhere else.

The same applies to international borders too. I know people that struggled here but have gone on to do well in the US or Canada. If things were really desperate they could try Australia.
 
scaramanga said:
So let's assume the same except that I was born in Mayfair.

I can't afford to live in Mayfair, although I would very much like to. So I live somewhere else.

The same applies to international borders too. I know people that struggled here but have gone on to do well in the US or Canada. If things were really desperate they could try Australia.
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This is assuming you have the skills and means to make that move. You need disposable income to move, you need courage and opportunity to move. You are very privileged so could never understand how hard it can be. I would ask you to speak to people directly who have had such challenges (myself, welcome to speak privately if you want), so you can actually relate rather than spout stuff you do not understand
 
LutonSpurs said:
This is assuming you have the skills and means to make that move. You need disposable income to move, you need courage and opportunity to move. You are very privileged so could never understand how hard it can be. I would ask you to speak to people directly who have had such challenges (myself, welcome to speak privately if you want), so you can actually relate rather than spout stuff you do not understand
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I wasn't born with money, I had to earn it like everyone (mostly) else.

Your premise that people can't afford to buy in the expensive areas presupposes that they could afford to buy a house if it were cheaper. We'll houses are cheap in places like Bradford, people just don't want to live there.
 
"Only 127 fuel drivers from overseas have applied for temporary visas aimed at tackling shortages, the prime minister has said."

i'm shocked. after spending years telling foreigners to fudge off, they dont want to return for 3mths when we need them. unbelievable eh.
 
Diamond Lights said:
"Only 127 fuel drivers from overseas have applied for temporary visas aimed at tackling shortages, the prime minister has said."

i'm shocked. after spending years telling foreigners to fudge off, they dont want to return for 3mths when we need them. unbelievable eh.
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Who is going to give up a job knowing they'll only have a few months of employment until March in the UK? Ill-thought-out governance of our nation.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Who is going to give up a job knowing they'll only have a few months of employment until March in the UK? Ill-thought-out governance of our nation.
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don't think it's til March, think it's end of Dec.

Anyway, now we have a problem. Those on the right, or who voted Brexit, like to espouse the benefits of "well it's fine the market will dictate the supply/demand".

But that conveniantly ignores the point that the market is telling us, we are in demand of HGV drivers.

But the supply, is controlled by politicians. So, the market may determine the need, but the supply isn't going to come in through market forces (like it did under freedom of movement) but under politicians making decisions.

This is then further exacerbated because in this example, the need is NOW. Not in 3 months time. But by the time you go through the process of 'opening the taps' to allow more labour in (such as providing additional visa's), people complete paperwork, find somewhere to live or earn money through bank accounts etc, guess what, you're now months down the line with the gap simply growing.

Unless you have a government in place with quality people and foresight to you know, understand wants and needs into the future. We clearly don't, because the HGV visa process came in 2 weeks ago yet anyone in government should have foreseen logistical issues such as this, and it will only get worse in the run up to Christmas. Instead, the party wanted to cater to it's 'foreign-hating' supporters which it's done well as usual.
 
Diamond Lights said:
don't think it's til March, think it's end of Dec.

Anyway, now we have a problem. Those on the right, or who voted Brexit, like to espouse the benefits of "well it's fine the market will dictate the supply/demand".

But that conveniantly ignores the point that the market is telling us, we are in demand of HGV drivers.

But the supply, is controlled by politicians. So, the market may determine the need, but the supply isn't going to come in through market forces (like it did under freedom of movement) but under politicians making decisions.

This is then further exacerbated because in this example, the need is NOW. Not in 3 months time. But by the time you go through the process of 'opening the taps' to allow more labour in (such as providing additional visa's), people complete paperwork, find somewhere to live or earn money through bank accounts etc, guess what, you're now months down the line with the gap simply growing.

Unless you have a government in place with quality people and foresight to you know, understand wants and needs into the future. We clearly don't, because the HGV visa process came in 2 weeks ago yet anyone in government should have foreseen logistical issues such as this, and it will only get worse in the run up to Christmas. Instead, the party wanted to cater to it's 'foreign-hating' supporters which it's done well as usual.
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I guess the issue is that we have a visa system for high-end workers but not for low-paid workers. People who are paid well can be imported without too much bother. But that is counter to what we need. We have lots of well-educated people. People who are keen to take on well-paid jobs. What we are missing are low-skilled less well-paid people. It seems so obvious, was obvious before Brexit, but somehow it seems to have passed the government by.

Our immigration and visa system is setup to allow high-paid immigration, but the UK needs low paid workers. That is the the crux of the issue isn't it?
 
Diamond Lights said:
don't think it's til March, think it's end of Dec.

Anyway, now we have a problem. Those on the right, or who voted Brexit, like to espouse the benefits of "well it's fine the market will dictate the supply/demand".

But that conveniantly ignores the point that the market is telling us, we are in demand of HGV drivers.

But the supply, is controlled by politicians. So, the market may determine the need, but the supply isn't going to come in through market forces (like it did under freedom of movement) but under politicians making decisions.

This is then further exacerbated because in this example, the need is NOW. Not in 3 months time. But by the time you go through the process of 'opening the taps' to allow more labour in (such as providing additional visa's), people complete paperwork, find somewhere to live or earn money through bank accounts etc, guess what, you're now months down the line with the gap simply growing.

Unless you have a government in place with quality people and foresight to you know, understand wants and needs into the future. We clearly don't, because the HGV visa process came in 2 weeks ago yet anyone in government should have foreseen logistical issues such as this, and it will only get worse in the run up to Christmas. Instead, the party wanted to cater to it's 'foreign-hating' supporters which it's done well as usual.
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The supply was halted by politicians putting our country into lockdown. A measure I believe you were in favour of.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I guess the issue is that we have a visa system for high-end workers but not for low-paid workers. People who are paid well can be imported without too much bother. But that is counter to what we need. We have lots of well-educated people. People who are keen to take on well-paid jobs. What we are missing are low-skilled less well-paid people. It seems so obvious, was obvious before Brexit, but somehow it seems to have passed the government by.

Our immigration and visa system is setup to allow high-paid immigration, but the UK needs low paid workers. That is the the crux of the issue isn't it?
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There is a Corona aspect to it, but the loss of FOM is the crux of the labour shortage. I can see more and more exemptions being added temporarily and then indefintely in all the different sectors that have shortages. The irony being this will be unidirectional and this benefit will not apply to UK citizens going the other way.


Edit: Sorry I might have been wrong about the unidirectional nature.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1445332859200446466
 
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Diamond Lights said:
So we had 100k lorry drivers lined up but lockdown stopped that? Must have missed that. 20,000 EU nationals left the country, so at your absolute straw grasping best, we're short 80k.
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We were training over 30k lorry drivers per annum before lockdown (twice that number pass but around half end up driving buses and coaches, it seems).

I think it's fairly safe to say that number would be significantly higher with the increase in pay that lower supply has created.
 
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Rorschach said:
There is a Corona aspect to it, but the loss of FOM is the crux of the labour shortage. I can see more and more exemptions being added temporarily and then indefintely in all the different sectors that have shortages. The irony being this will be unidirectional and this benefit will not apply to UK citizens going the other way.


Edit: Sorry I might have been wrong about the unidirectional nature.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1445332859200446466
Click to expand...


The real issue is that FOM for EU nationals has as been confused as immigration and asylum seekers.
I know quite a few brexit voters that don't seem to realise the difference.
Trying to explain to them brexit won't stop immigration (which they see as a bad thing) but will stop FOM, a good thing, was very frustrating, and ultimately pointless.
 
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