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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

glasgowspur said:
The real mistake with the whole brexit process was jumping straight in after the vote.
Cameron should have went back to the eu and tried to renegotiate some of the issues that we weren't happy with. He had leverage then, he didn't before hand and got short shrift.
Imv most of the general public across Europe aren't happy at the direction eu are going in, the eu politicians don't really care as they are untouchable (look at farage ffs) and will drive through what they think is best and the plebs better just suck it up.
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There were many times throughout the process where a renegotiation could have happened and the EU would have listened and moved. The majority of the Brexiteers would have accepted that as a victory. Alas the people in charge didn't have that foresight.

Now we have the beginnings of a predictable brick show (and it is just the beginning). And the Brexiteers have gone real quite about the benefits.

We are where are though and Brexit is what it is, none of the problems were not known before hand, and it is complete incompetence by the government to have not put things in place before to mitigate some of the shower of Shît they created. This is on them as much if nor more than it is on the normal Brexiteers.
 
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So, this is exactly what was voted for as part of Brexit - the stopping of freedom of movement and the market managing it's own workforce needs to a position where Govt controls/enables (delete as appropriate?) labour supply to supplement shortages.

We know there is a global shortage of HGV drivers.
This means the EU has an advantage with FoM as there are less barriers (especially time barriers - ie visa's) to get staff quickly.

So I'm curious to hear why people think we got to this point rather than having a system in place to react to front end it, rather than have to be reactive.
Particularly interested in @Danishfurniturelover and @parklane1 as I know we have debated these before.
Really curious to hear how you think it'll go from here too - will we get the response we need now we have sent a call to action for 500 drivers?
I suspect we will, so they can work for a few months and take lots of money back to poorer economies.

From my side, I think covid took the govt eye off the ball.
However, we have had shortages of HGV drivers for 15 years, this was proped up by the EU labour flow. In the 5 years since brexit there should have been in-depth industry reviews at govt level and processes put in place for when issues start to grow.
 
monkeybarry said:
So, this is exactly what was voted for as part of Brexit - the stopping of freedom of movement and the market managing it's own workforce needs to a position where Govt controls/enables (delete as appropriate?) labour supply to supplement shortages.

We know there is a global shortage of HGV drivers.
This means the EU has an advantage with FoM as there are less barriers (especially time barriers - ie visa's) to get staff quickly.

So I'm curious to hear why people think we got to this point rather than having a system in place to react to front end it, rather than have to be reactive.
Particularly interested in @Danishfurniturelover and @statlover1 as I know we have debated these before.
Really curious to hear how you think it'll go from here too - will we get the response we need now we have sent a call to action for 500 drivers?
I suspect we will, so they can work for a few months and take lots of money back to poorer economies.

From my side, I think covid took the govt eye off the ball.
However, we have had shortages of HGV drivers for 15 years, this was proped up by the EU labour flow. In the 5 years since brexit there should have been in-depth industry reviews at govt level and processes put in place for when issues start to grow.
Click to expand...
Whilst Brexit hasn't helped, the number of foreign national HGV drivers leaving the UK is a drop in the ocean compared to the number that leave the industry every year. This problem would have been slightly less bad without Brexit but it would have looked very similar even without it.

The largest problem by far (as someone who employs permanent and temporary drivers and hires a lot of transport) is that nobody has been trained in the last 2 years. We've even tried getting refresher courses for those in our factory that used to be drivers - a training company we use fairly regularly has told us there's no chance as they have a 2 year backlog.

The issue over visas is stupid. I don't understand why there should be a limit on people living here as long as we don't have to pay for them.
 
glasgowspur said:
the eu politicians don't really care as they are untouchable (look at farage ffs) and will drive through what they think is best and the plebs better just suck it up.
Click to expand...

As opposed to our own government, whose actions over the last couple of years have shown they are all about looking after the man on the street…:rolleyes:
 
monkeybarry said:
So, this is exactly what was voted for as part of Brexit - the stopping of freedom of movement and the market managing it's own workforce needs to a position where Govt controls/enables (delete as appropriate?) labour supply to supplement shortages.

We know there is a global shortage of HGV drivers.
This means the EU has an advantage with FoM as there are less barriers (especially time barriers - ie visa's) to get staff quickly.

So I'm curious to hear why people think we got to this point rather than having a system in place to react to front end it, rather than have to be reactive.
Particularly interested in @Danishfurniturelover and @statlover1 as I know we have debated these before.
Really curious to hear how you think it'll go from here too - will we get the response we need now we have sent a call to action for 500 drivers?
I suspect we will, so they can work for a few months and take lots of money back to poorer economies.

From my side, I think covid took the govt eye off the ball.
However, we have had shortages of HGV drivers for 15 years, this was proped up by the EU labour flow. In the 5 years since brexit there should have been in-depth industry reviews at govt level and processes put in place for when issues start to grow.
Click to expand...

I and others who have backed brexit have said so many times what the benefits of brexit are. It is mind numbing how we have to keep going through it. Thar is the reason so many do not come in this thread, I could prove it by some of the PM's I have got. You guys who don't like brexit can keep having your tossfest in here if you like but the rest of us are not interested.

The were always going to be teething problems with brexit but none of the issues you guys are going on about are not things that can not be solved.

I think rather then being left or right wing my views are based on the working class which despite being very comfortable now I came from.

But through work and social contacts a lot who describe themselves as working class are really not and live on benefits. Cutting benefits and getting people into work either picking fruit or driving lorries will be a good thing.

I have worked with East europeans and the ones on this site for a while will know I had a holiday home in latvia for a few years and am still good friends with the guy I brought it with. I do not know a lazy immigrant, all the ones I have met have been good hard workers.

The thousand odd coming across a day on boats should be sent back unless genuine but if they are here give them training to drive lorries I got know problem with that. But benefits should be cut right down for everyone. That is the only way to sort out the country.

As for you and this thread I will not be responding because frankly I can not be bothered. You guys wore me down answering the same questions again and again and again. I am going to watch Blithe Spirit at the Harold Pinter and I know you are a theatre guy like myself and am happy to talk to you about that.

I will leave @scaramanga to talk some sense in this thread, though I do not agree with his views on meat he is pretty sound on everything else.

Notably in this thread which I will not be visiting anymore a quick read through of the last few pages and the is a gapping lack of discussion about Macron and his hissy fit. You guys want to know why brexit deals were so hard to sign with the EU need to discuss why the little french fella who married his teacher was so angry about us leaving. The other countries were happy to sign a separation deal sooner, that has been widely reported but Macron tried to stir up problems. Now in the last week the world can see what he is truly like.

That EU army that so many of us were opposed to and told will never happen is being widely discussed again, great idea that. Especially if you get an extremist party gain power inside a country like say Germany. But reading through the last few pages none of you guys talking about the serious stuff. When we should be engaging with the world with Japan, India, America, Australia and Brazil etc. You are not even talking about little old Europe. No your discussing meato_O

I will be watching what happens in the German elections closely but I will be discussing on a forum I use for investing. Not on this weird biased Pro little old Europen thread.

I like chatting with you guys on other topics. But like the other brexiters I have been bullied out of this thread. You can think that is because we were wrong all you like, but actually I just got sick of answering the same questions again and again and again and again.

See you in the theatre thread:)
 
scaramanga said:
Whilst Brexit hasn't helped, the number of foreign national HGV drivers leaving the UK is a drop in the ocean compared to the number that leave the industry every year. This problem would have been slightly less bad without Brexit but it would have looked very similar even without it.

The largest problem by far (as someone who employs permanent and temporary drivers and hires a lot of transport) is that nobody has been trained in the last 2 years. We've even tried getting refresher courses for those in our factory that used to be drivers - a training company we use fairly regularly has told us there's no chance as they have a 2 year backlog.

The issue over visas is stupid. I don't understand why there should be a limit on people living here as long as we don't have to pay for them.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It's been brewing for ages, and EU workers papered over the cracks - but now we have self imposed barriers in place. The call to action to get foreign drivers will be interesting - I wonder how many of the 5k places (which I appreciate is well well below what we actually need) will get taken up.
It's a reactive move; Brexit created the space that should have seen proactivity.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I and others who have backed brexit have said so many times what the benefits of brexit are. It is mind numbing how we have to keep going through it. Thar is the reason so many do not come in this thread, I could prove it by some of the PM's I have got. You guys who don't like brexit can keep having your tossfest in here if you like but the rest of us are not interested.

The were always going to be teething problems with brexit but none of the issues you guys are going on about are not things that can not be solved.

I think rather then being left or right wing my views are based on the working class which despite being very comfortable now I came from.

But through work and social contacts a lot who describe themselves as working class are really not and live on benefits. Cutting benefits and getting people into work either picking fruit or driving lorries will be a good thing.

I have worked with East europeans and the ones on this site for a while will know I had a holiday home in latvia for a few years and am still good friends with the guy I brought it with. I do not know a lazy immigrant, all the ones I have met have been good hard workers.

The thousand odd coming across a day on boats should be sent back unless genuine but if they are here give them training to drive lorries I got know problem with that. But benefits should be cut right down for everyone. That is the only way to sort out the country.

As for you and this thread I will not be responding because frankly I can not be bothered. You guys wore me down answering the same questions again and again and again. I am going to watch Blithe Spirit at the Harold Pinter and I know you are a theatre guy like myself and am happy to talk to you about that.

I will leave @scaramanga to talk some sense in this thread, though I do not agree with his views on meat he is pretty sound on everything else.

Notably in this thread which I will not be visiting anymore a quick read through of the last few pages and the is a gapping lack of discussion about Macron and his hissy fit. You guys want to know why brexit deals were so hard to sign with the EU need to discuss why the little french fella who married his teacher was so angry about us leaving. The other countries were happy to sign a separation deal sooner, that has been widely reported but Macron tried to stir up problems. Now in the last week the world can see what he is truly like.

That EU army that so many of us were opposed to and told will never happen is being widely discussed again, great idea that. Especially if you get an extremist party gain power inside a country like say Germany. But reading through the last few pages none of you guys talking about the serious stuff. When we should be engaging with the world with Japan, India, America, Australia and Brazil etc. You are not even talking about little old Europe. No your discussing meato_O

I will be watching what happens in the German elections closely but I will be discussing on a forum I use for investing. Not on this weird biased Pro little old Europen thread.

I like chatting with you guys on other topics. But like the other brexiters I have been bullied out of this thread. You can think that is because we were wrong all you like, but actually I just got sick of answering the same questions again and again and again and again.

See you in the theatre thread:)
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Yeah.....so literally none of that relates to my post or question
 
Mikey10 said:
As opposed to our own government, whose actions over the last couple of years have shown they are all about looking after the man on the street…:rolleyes:
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Ours can be voted out and I hope to GHod and I do not even think he exists, that ours get voted out.

I will be voting labour but the problem is labour seem more interested in more and more minority issues like trans. If a bloke wants to become a bird I have no problem with and the should be laws to protect them. But focusing on working class issues should be a must. How about going around council estates and promising to train up people to be lorry drivers. Two problems with that, first labour do not really care about the working class and the people who should be trained up to be drivers are to dependent on benefits and scared of a hard day's work.
 
monkeybarry said:
Yeah.....so literally none of that relates to my post or question
Click to expand...

What the hell is your problem????

So many times people have answered your questions and you have bullied and trolled them out of this thread.

You even admit that brecit is not the sole reader for brecit so what the fuvk more do you want?

The government to train up people to work in industries that the country needs. Well yes that is what countries should be doing.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
What the hell is your problem????

So many times people have answered your questions and you have bullied and trolled them out of this thread.

You even admit that brecit is not the sole reader for brecit so what the fuvk more do you want?

The government to train up people to work in industries that the country needs. Well yes that is what countries should be doing.
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No real need for the passive aggression - but each to their own.

I ask questions and debate points about politics in a thread about politics. Sometimes those questions become very challenging for people.

If you look at my post you chose to rant in response to instead of engaging in political conversation in a politics thread you will see it is about the present political landscape, of which brexit is a part; indeed I highlight that this current situation contains within it one of the reasons for brexit.
 
Don’t think the EU would have budged on anything post referendum as people voted to keep foreigners out mostly. Oh sure we can talk about trade and all the other flimflam but let’s be honest it was Britain’s xenophobia “wot won it”.

The answer is of course to just train 100,000 more lorry drivers. Almost entirely missing the point that there’s not 100,000 people applying to drive lorries.

But who cares? Blue passports eh. The wonders of brexit as some espouse just aren’t here yet. Let me know when they arrive though yeh?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Diamond Lights said:
Don’t think the EU would have budged on anything post referendum as people voted to keep foreigners out mostly. Oh sure we can talk about trade and all the other flimflam but let’s be honest it was Britain’s xenophobia “wot won it”.

The answer is of course to just train 100,000 more lorry drivers. Almost entirely missing the point that there’s not 100,000 people applying to drive lorries.

But who cares? Blue passports eh. The wonders of brexit as some espouse just aren’t here yet. Let me know when they arrive though yeh?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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That many HGV drivers would have trained over the last couple of years if it weren't for COVID.

Germany, Poland and CZ all have huge shortages of HGV drivers at the moment. I guess Brexit really fudged them too....
 
A genuine issue I know of through work
Furlough was used to pay for drivers (and other people) to not work… cool we knew that
But a large number went “home” and worked in the countries they came from or just chilled the fudge out as they were getting paid. Some of those ain’t coming back.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
A genuine issue I know of through work
Furlough was used to pay for drivers (and other people) to not work… cool we knew that
But a large number went “home” and worked in the countries they came from or just chilled the fudge out as they were getting paid. Some of those ain’t coming back.
Click to expand...

That was inevitable, the incentives to get them back should have been on the table months ago.
 
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