• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

SpurMeUp said:
What’s simple is that you have failed to account for why the pound dropped post Brexit vote. Everyone knows it dropped because markets reacted to the vote. They don’t think the UK will prosper without the free open trade with our neighbours and control we exert over it via the EU.

You maintained the pounds drop was not due to Brexit but could not say why else it dropped instantly post vote.

Brexit has only bought negative things to the UK. And you and others can not outline what positives it offers. I can see it looked an attractive proposition, but does it still look that way now? What does it have to offer anyone? It’s messy, exceeding difficult, and weakens us economical and politically. This reality is staring you in the face.
Click to expand...

I'd be very interested in seeing the quotes where I said that...care to post them up?

You won't find them, so don't waste your time looking. Because I never said any such thing. I simply argued against the apocalyptic vision you repeatedly try to pass off by providing a little perspective. Generally speaking the pound, vs. the euro, is roughly where it's been for most of the last decade - with the exception of a spike for 12 months or so in 2015.

But it doesn't really fit your narrative so well when expressed in those terms, does it?
 
Legohamster said:
I voted remain, but believe we should leave - but it HAS to be with a deal or it will be carnage for the worst off.
Click to expand...

It’s a reasonable stance. The problem is this: when the deal is put on the table - as with May - it becomes obvious that remaining in the EU is preferable for the UK. Which is why the likes of Farrage and the ERG etc didn't support May's deal and had to shift their stance to favour a no deal exit post vote. It’s not that it offers anything more, it is simply that the reality of it is kicked down the road.

If we ever got to no deal, farrage and erg would be moving the goal posts yet again - “it’s not the Brexit we would have had” Yet the ERG, UKIP and the Brexit party have not outlined a vision for post Brexit Britain. Why is that?

Brexit is the biggest political sham of our age. It is staggering how it was sold and lapped up. When there are few to any benefits. The stark reality of brexit - when the complexities come to light - is the real issue that is stopping Brexit from evolving. Anytime anyone gets close to delivery, we see what the reality of brexit is worse than what we have now.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Last edited:
Parklaner81 said:
I'd be very interested in seeing the quotes where I said that...care to post them up?

You won't find them, so don't waste your time looking. Because I never said any such thing. I simply argued against the apocalyptic vision you repeatedly try to pass off by providing a little perspective. Generally speaking the pound, vs. the euro, is roughly where it's been for most of the last decade - with the exception of a spike for 12 months or so in 2015.

But it doesn't really fit your narrative so well when expressed in those terms, does it?
Click to expand...

You said that you were not sure that Brexit increased the cost of going abroad. And then went on to try and argue the pound-Euro drop was not due to brexit. Looks like you're rowing back on that now. Fair enough.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Quotes?

Keep digging...
Click to expand...

It's there accross 2 quotes. I wrote about what caused Thomas Cooks demise, noting the increased costs of holidays because of the pounds drop, you bolded it and replied, saying you weren't sure of it. Remember? Then I posted a 5 year graph and you kinda went off on one, trying to maintain the pounds dip has nothing to do with Brexit, and now you're rowing back on it. Fair enough. No biggie.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It’s a reasonable stance. The problem is this: when the deal is put on the table - as with May - it becomes obvious that remaining in the EU is preferable for the UK. Which is why the likes of Farrage and the ERG etc didn't support May's deal and had to shift their stance to favour a no deal exit post vote. It’s not that it offers anything more, it is simply that the reality of it is kicked down the road.

If we ever got to no deal, farrage and erg would be moving the goal posts yet again - “it’s not the Brexit we would have had” Yet the ERG, UKIP and the Brexit party have not outlined a vision for post Brexit Britain. Why is that?

Brexit is the biggest political sham of our age. It is staggering how it was sold and lapped up. When there are few to any benefits. The stark reality of brexit - when the complexities come to light - is the real issue that is stopping Brexit from evolving. Anytime anyone gets close to delivery, we see what the reality of brexit is worse than what we have now.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...

We should have taken Mays deal, and worked on the back stop answer once out.

The problem is there is no middle ground

You have utter fudgetards on both sides, how anyone seriously listens to Farage is beyond me - it’s a job to him - he doesn’t want Brexit as the money train will stop ( I’m sure the shifting of the pound will soften the blow) that’s why it’s never enough “what’s wrong with being like Norway” to No Deal Brexit.

The Lib Dem’s stance doesn’t help either.

I work in an industry that will be affected by a no deal - I can tell you it’s not going to be pretty.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It's there accross 2 quotes. I wrote about what caused Thomas Cooks demise, noting the increased costs of holidays because of the pounds drop, you bolded it and replied, saying you weren't sure of it. Remember? Then I posted a 5 year graph and you kinda went off on one, trying to maintain the pounds dip has nothing to do with Brexit, and now you're rowing back on it. Fair enough. No biggie.
Click to expand...

It seems I remember it far better than you do.

I disputed that the pound was much lower now than it had been previously. We then brought in some data that bore this out, once we got past your attempt at framing said data in a misleading manner to suit your argument.

Never have I once stated that the pound's dip has nothing to do with Brexit. I've challenged you twice now to disprove this with quotes. You have failed to do so - as you will continue to fail to do, since I've never said any such thing.

Now we reach a point where, rather than accept your misinterpretation and misrepresentation of my points, you're doubling down - despite being unable to back up your assertions with quotes.

I don't think this discussion has anywhere else to go.
 
Legohamster said:
We should have taken Mays deal, and worked on the back stop answer once out.

The problem is there is no middle ground

You have utter fudgetards on both sides, how anyone seriously listens to Farage is beyond me - it’s a job to him - he doesn’t want Brexit as the money train will stop ( I’m sure the shifting of the pound will soften the blow) that’s why it’s never enough “what’s wrong with being like Norway” to No Deal Brexit.

The Lib Dem’s stance doesn’t help either.

I work in an industry that will be affected by a no deal - I can tell you it’s not going to be pretty.
Click to expand...

The problem is every brexit leaves the UK worse off. Government figures (hidden ones) show it, and every economic model shows it. With No Deal being the most severe for the UK. May's deal was not backed by those who wanted to Leave because it would not have delivered value to the UK. Mays deal was backed by people who had your stance - remainers who wanted damage limitation.

The funny thing is, I kind of feel more affinity with those that are chasing a revolution. Chasing a brexit dream. Good on them for looking for something more radical to shake up politics. The issue is, brexit doesn't actually do that, it just weakens our economy because the EU is first and foremost a trading block.

Brexit doesn't sort immigration either, because the vast majority of our immigrants that stay on are from the rest of the world. Not to mention that Brits actually prefer european migrants to RoW ones, and we will need migration to service low paid work, and some high skilled jobs too.

So Brexit doesn't give us anything but it hits us economically. And could break up the UK. And has left our Parliment in tatters. What's not to like!?
 
Parklaner81 said:
It seems I remember it far better than you do.

I disputed that the pound was much lower now than it had been previously. We then bought in some data that bore this out, once we got past your attempt at framing said data in a misleading manner to suit your argument.

Never have I once stated that the pound's dip has nothing to do with Brexit. I've challenged you twice now to disprove this with quotes. You have failed to do so - as you will continue to fail to do, since I've never said any such thing.

Now we reach a point where, rather than accept your misinterpretation and misrepresentation of my points you're doubling down, despite being unable to back up your assertions with quotes.

I don't think this discussion has anywhere else to go.
Click to expand...

↑
These things are rarely due to one factor, rather a number of different things combine. In this case:

- hot summers in the uk
- reduced value of the pound cutting profit margins (kinda is due to Brexit)
- increased cost of going abroad (due to Brexit)
- changing consumer habits using online tools to be your own travel agent

No doubt other factors too.

I'm not entirely convinced about this either. Yes the pound is at historically low levels against the dollar, but against the euro (where I'm assuming the bulk of TC's business was focussed)? Off the top of my head I can recall it touching levels below where it currently is more than once pre-referendum. There's no doubt an element of truth in what you say, but at the same time I suspect it's being overused & oversimplified by the anti-brexit side of the argument.

----

So we agree the pond is weaker due to Brexit? Walo cobblers. Any good things you can point to that brexit has brought about?
 
SpurMeUp said:
↑
These things are rarely due to one factor, rather a number of different things combine. In this case:

- hot summers in the uk
- reduced value of the pound cutting profit margins (kinda is due to Brexit)
- increased cost of going abroad (due to Brexit)
- changing consumer habits using online tools to be your own travel agent

No doubt other factors too.

I'm not entirely convinced about this either. Yes the pound is at historically low levels against the dollar, but against the euro (where I'm assuming the bulk of TC's business was focussed)? Off the top of my head I can recall it touching levels below where it currently is more than once pre-referendum. There's no doubt an element of truth in what you say, but at the same time I suspect it's being overused & oversimplified by the anti-brexit side of the argument.

----

So we agree the pond is weaker due to Brexit? Walo cobblers. Any good things you can point to that brexit has bought about?
Click to expand...

If you expect me to reply, at least try to make some sense.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The problem is every brexit leaves the UK worse off. Government figures (hidden ones) show it, and every economic model shows it. With No Deal being the most severe for the UK. May's deal was not backed by those who wanted to Leave because it would have delivered value to the UK. Mays deal was backed by people who had your stance - remainers who wanted damage limitation.

The funny thing is, I kind of feel more affinity with those that are chasing a revolution. Chasing a brexit dream. Good on them for looking for something more radical to shake up politics. The issue is, brexit doesn't actually do that, it just weakens our economy because the EU is first and foremost a trading block.

Brexit doesn't sort immigration either, because the vast majority of our immigrants that stay on are from the rest of the world. Not to mention that Brits actually prefer european migrants to RoW ones, and we will need migration to service low paid work, and some high skilled jobs too.

So Brexit doesn't give us anything but it hits us economically. And could break up the UK. And has left our Parliment in tatters. What's not to like!?
Click to expand...

Brexit and immigration is a red herring.

India have already said they want Visas in any trade deal, plus we had controls anyway WE picked not to enforce them.

I live in Crawley and it voted to leave and immigration being a main reason - but Crawley is made up of Sri Lankan’s/Indians/Pakistanis etc which are nothing to do with the EU.
 
Parklaner81 said:
If you expect me to reply, at least try to make some sense.
Click to expand...

Those are the 2 posts where you bolded my text and proceeded to try and explain the drop off of the pound against the Euro as simply a reversion to historic levels.

Let me ask again: so we agree the pond is weaker due to Brexit?
Are there any good things you can point to that brexit has bought about?
 
Legohamster said:
Brexit and immigration is a red herring.

India have already said they want Visas in any trade deal, plus we had controls anyway WE picked not to enforce them.

I live in Crawley and it voted to leave and immigration being a main reason - but Crawley is made up of Sri Lankan’s/Indians/Pakistanis etc which are nothing to do with the EU.
Click to expand...

Yep. Such is the folly of this nonsense. If it hadn't taken years and cost billions, it would be pretty funny! The UK is a bit of a luaghing stock right now.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Those are the 2 posts where you bolded my text and proceeded to try and explain the drop off the pound against the Euro as simply a reversion to historic levels.
Click to expand...

The pound has reverted to something approximating it's historic level of the past decade. Take another look at the charts if you're struggling with that.

The person in this conversation trying to explain the movements of the pound is you, not me. All I've done is point out the facts and call out your attempts at misleading people.
 
Parklaner81 said:
The pound has reverted to something approximating it's historic level of the past decade. Take another look at the charts if you're struggling with that.

The person in this conversation trying to explain the movements of the pound is you, not me. All I've done is point out the facts and call out your attempts at misleading people.
Click to expand...

I honestly can’t recall the pound being this low for this long in the past decade?
 
Legohamster said:
The Proroguing has nothing to do with Brexit, so the Brexit views are irrelevant

Or It was and the Government lied, so the SC are right.
Click to expand...
It has everything to do with Brexit for the Remainders because they want as much time as they can to pass as many laws as they can closing off all routes to Brexit.

Even if Proroguing was about Brexit, the answer is still political, not legal.
 
Legohamster said:
An election solves nothing, if anything we will end up with a more split Parliament, the only way out is if there a majority for one of the extremes (no deal/revoke) which won’t happen.

I voted remain, but believe we should leave - but it HAS to be with a deal or it will be carnage for the worst off.
Click to expand...
If no deal is made impossible then leaving with a deal is automatically made impossible.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back