nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
What a load of gonads. Nonsense like this comes up, is it any wonder there no faith in our political class any more?
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
But legislation is not pointless! It's what keeps quality and safety above a certain minimum standard. So.... You know the brick you buy doesn't blow up in your kids face for instance... Or at least not as much as it would, without legislation
On sizable (which 15% is) currency fluctuations, they can be useful (that's why I never wanted the euro), if part of a plan being implemented... But if they are out of our control and 'being done to us' rather than us using it as a tool,it is generally accepted as a bad thing, especially for your man on the street.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
They worked well together as a team when they were at St Trinian's together, getting one over on Flash Harry
15% is massively cherry picking. If you don't understand why, just ask and I'll explain what that means.
I don't want government to set legislation on quality, I want the consumer to be able to choose. If I want to buy cheap tat from China then I want to be able to buy cheap tat from China without the government sticking their noses in. If I choose to buy premium products elsewhere then I want that to be my choice.
you are in the minority with that and its very unlikely that your world will happen post brexit, I hope we do not get rid of all regulation and quality control as you envision. It may happen depending on the next GE but as it stands the savings you associate with legislation are unlikely to be realised.
Not only do I believe that we could produce significant savings by picking and choosing the legislation that suits us, I also believe that we would be able to undercut those in Europe and increase exports.
With low levels of taxation (something Johnson has already shown he is a believer in) then we could be their largest competitor, right on their doorsteps.
When a party wins power with those objectives it becomes more relevant to this discussion (what will happen), up until now no serious party has offered it as they know they will lose.
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No party can win at all until Brexit has happened. We'll see where the land lies after that.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Exports to where? And competing with the EU over what?
All data shows that countries trade most with nations in proximity to themseleves. And sure enough most of our trade is with Europe.
So, lets just be clear about what you are saying. We will change our legislation to allow us to undercut European products or services? I hate to state the obvious but if our new legislation doesn't meet EU legislation on a given product (or if we don't have a trade agreement) we won't be undercutting any producers selling to our biggest markets - in Europe. So that idea rather falls flat on its face.
If what you are saying holds any water what so ever, we would have to be selling a lot moer stuff to non-EU nations then. There are a number of reasons why your logic doesn't appear to stack up here either. One, Germany and Italy export a huge amount more to non-EU nations than we do now. They do this from within the EU with all the afore mention legislation which is supposedly holding us back. In other words if Italy and Germany are selling so much more to non-EU nations than we do now, then it probably aint EU legislation that is the key variable or constraint. It is not EU legislation that is holding back our exports.
Two, the EU has free trade deals with Japan etc which would allow us to export food goods we produce for example to Japan. The UK won't have such a trade deal and Japan will protect its own domestic food production. Every nation needs to protect its farmers so if war or something terrible happened, the country would not be completely dependent on imports of food. The UK has no free trade deals set up, they normally take years to put in place, and weight of the UK market matters. At 55m consumers we're not going to get as a good trade terms as the EU with 500m.
Where do you think the increase in exports would come from? It is notable that credible economists do not share this Telegraph/Tory dream. Why is that?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Corrected for you. You're welcome.
We will be selling to the 93% of the world that isn't the EU.
Any party revoking Brexit would be out of power for at least a generation.
Even amongst remainders, plenty of polls have shown that they would consider it undemocratic to do so.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Where to start with this stat. All nations trade most with neighbours. The EU are 99% of our neighbours. They are also (one of) the most culturally developed prosperous areas of the world.
But you have confidence in this. It's been rumbling along for years now. Outline what goods we might sell to where because of 'liberating' non-EU legislation.
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How sure are you about that claim?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
It's a simple process of logic. Brexit with unicorns is not deliverable. It is a dead end. Both in terms of trade and the Union. There are other draw backs too re. international collaboration and England's standing on the world stage. If Brexit is undeliverable, it is a matter of time until we move on. The sooner we can vote again the better. And do opinion polls show that people want Brexit? I thought that since there has been a small but consistent majority of people against brexit.
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SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Various economists outline and demonstraite the Gravity Model.
But forget that, just use your own logic. How much does it cost to send an item to France vs sending it to the USA? Time, fuel, and monetry cost.
Nice side step. How sure are you that "All nations trade most with neighbours"?
Yes but until then let's look at reality rather than your utopia
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
The only one "side-stepping" is your good self. Despite years of brexit fervour you couldn't tell me one law we'd change or product we'd sell more of post brexit, to back up your claim. That is laughable! We were supposed to leave the EU months ago, yet you don't seem willing or able to back up your claims with real life.
Have a good look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_trade People have taken great care to check out emperical data to show that trade between 2 nations is predicated by distance (and size of the nation).
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I'll assume you've understood the gravity model and are just playing dumb for effect. Distance is one factor in the equation (far from the only one) in a model that has diminishing value as worldwide trade increases in the modern world.
I've been through a few laws I'd revoke. As always in this discussion, you simply ignore all previous discussion and repeat the same points again and again.
So I'll ask one more time, how confident are you in your statement that "All nations trade most with neighbours"? After all, if the gravity method works the way you are insinuating it does, you should be able to show that no major country has large trading partners that are not local.