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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Grays_1890 said:
My dad worked in London every day during this and as a family there was real fear on his life so yeh I an my family had skin in the game as he was close to a few things then.

But the root of the problem is the IRA not Londons responsibility per say as much as it is Londons responsibility for the London Bridge attack.
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I'm amazed. If my Dad faced such risk or died even, I would say that is my problem, and if it occured in my country I'd say that is our contrys problem. Each to their own.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Lets talk actions not emotions. What actual real actions have the EU taken? I bolded your text which was all emotion.
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The Eu and its members went to social media to goad the UK and the PM, thats a fact of life no emotion.

So who is the childish football hooligan in this? Me for saying "go fudge yourself" or them for the original action. Your bias will say me of course but you are wrong
 
SpurMeUp said:
I'm amazed. If my Dad faced such risk or died even, I would say that is my problem, and if it occured in my country I'd say that is our contrys problem. Each to their own.
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I was one tube behind the 7/7 tube at Aldgate as I worked on the Minories didn't see that as our problem but more a problem of those that committed the act.

The Ireland border issue in broader terms in this modern day situation where the EU, IRELAND and UK are all involved, the responsibility does not fall purely on the UKs table, thats the point.

The EU and Ireland have as much to worry about it as anyone so lets play their game and see who blinks first
 
SpurMeUp said:
You can't see that this childish approach is pure fantasy? The core of the EU is the customs union. There will be rules on maintaining its integrity that each nation has to respect. You havn't come up with some natty way to game the eu system, you've come up with a fantasy that would not stand up. Were anyone to try it (they wouldn't) the EU would just enforce the border at France until Ireland sorted out the customs breach. Just like they would for Spain if it started letting in Morocan goods in.
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That is a border between the EU and Ireland - Ireland will veto that in a heartbeat.

There's a border between Spain and Morocco. The EU can't put one between the UK and Ireland.
 
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If we’re taking sides in a hooligan fight I’m going with the EU lot, and specifically standing behind the Easterners.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
Grays_1890 said:
I was one tube behind the 7/7 tube at Aldgate as I worked on the Minories didn't see that as our problem but more a problem of those that committed the act.

The Ireland border issue in broader terms in this modern day situation where the EU, IRELAND and UK are all involved, the responsibility does not fall purely on the UKs table, thats the point.

The EU and Ireland have as much to worry about it as anyone so lets play their game and see who blinks first
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Wow. So what happened? Were you stuck on the train?

You do realise your spreading the burden to the EU too? Which is great. They should be able to help their members and they have shown they will stick up for Ireland when negotiating with us. It is a benifit of the EU. You pointing to it is a suprise mind as I thought you didn't appreciate what they can bring to the table.

As for 'who blinks first' shyte. It is no way to successfully negotiate. Meaningful relationships, and deals are built on cooperation, not fuking off your partner before you've even started negotiating. This kind of approach can only work as a dominant partner. And even then its not effective. A good deal has to leave both sides happy and represented. The idea that the EU "goad" us etc is stupid. How many posts on twitter etc. You could find any old gonads to back up your predisposed belief.
 
SpurMeUp said:
As for 'who blinks first' shyte. It is no way to successfully negotiate. Meaningful relationships, and deals are built on cooperation
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Thats why its called negotiating, you think the EU have given up anymore inches than they needed to out of old loyalty? Course they have not, they have turned the screw on us and used their bargaining chips and power to set their stall and push us for the worse deal for us and the best deal for them and their members. You applaud that yet condemn us for doing the exact same?
 
Grays_1890 said:
Thats why its called negotiating, you think the EU have given up anymore inches than they needed to out of old loyalty? Course they have not, they have turned the screw on us and used their bargaining chips and power to set their stall and push us for the worse deal for us and the best deal for them and their members. You applaud that yet condemn us for doing the exact same?
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I don't "applaud" that. It is just the way the world works. You look out for your own. It was predicted before the vote. But those who lied to you told you it would not happen. That negotiating would be easy. That we'd hold the cards. How could a club (the EU) represent non-members (us) over its own (Ireland and the 26 other nations)? Makes no sense, like Brexit.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
W
The idea that the EU "goad" us etc is stupid. How many posts on twitter etc. You could find any old gonad*s to back up your predisposed belief.
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Behave is it? Donald Tusk spent much of the whole negotiating goading the UK, you want to ignore it thats fine but its fact, I don't have to search for it its anywhere you care to look.

You don't acknowledge it because you are on his side, thats absolutely fine, I get it, but you would and have been just as quick to condemn the UK for taking the same kind of stance and called it childish and football hooligan like.

Funny how people see things.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I don't "applaud" that. It is just the way the world works. You look out for your own. It was predicted before the vote. But those who lied to you told you it would not happen. That negotiating would be easy. That we'd hold the cards. How could a club (the EU) represent non-members (us) over its own (Ireland the 26 others)? Makes no sense, like Brexit.
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And alas us doing the same "is the way of the world"
 
I take a bit of time away from the forum, for various reasons, and fudge me when I get back there's a new Prime Minister, a new cabinet, new advisers (including Dominic Cummings). Even a new leader of the Lib Dems.

However, we still appear to be firmly attached to the EU.
 
@scaramanga @Grays_1890

Your plan is totally flawed, what Ireland will do, is put a border on NI and then blame the UK for forcing them to do it. They won't use a their veto they will just blame us for forcing No Deal.

The IRA will not start putting bombs in Dublin because of that will they? No, but NI Garde and mainland Uk mainland will be fresh targets.

Also good luck getting a trade deal with America with a Irish loby that will be completely against it, because the perception of the UK fudging the GF agreement by forcing No deal.

"Oh...but... MR IRA... we didn't put the border there.. Please blame Ireland we didn't want a boarder... " Not going to wash is it?

But America... Please let's us have a trade deal... We didn't want a boarder in Ireland... I'm sure if you tell your citizens of Irish decent that it is all Ireland's doing... They will absolutely want you to do a trade deal with us.....
 
DTA said:
@scaramanga @Grays_1890

Your plan is totally flawed, what Ireland will do, is put a border on NI and then blame the UK for forcing them to do it. They won't use a their veto they will just blame us for forcing No Deal.

The IRA will not start putting bombs in Dublin because of that will they? No, but NI Garde and mainland Uk mainland will be fresh targets.

Also good luck getting a trade deal with America with a Irish loby that will be completely against it, because the perception of the UK fudging the GF agreement by forcing No deal.

"Oh...but... MR IRA... we didn't put the border there.. Please blame Ireland we didn't want a boarder... " Not going to wash is it?

But America... Please let's us have a trade deal... We didn't want a boarder in Ireland... I'm sure if you tell your citizens of Irish decent that it is all Ireland's doing... They will absolutely want you to do a trade deal with us.....
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I will bet my house that Ireland would veto any EU action that led to a border with NI. It would be absolutely unpalatable to them.

It wasn't just them bombing us remember. You think if the UK stops policing the nutjobs in the North they'll just sit down and have a cup of tea?
 
scaramanga said:
I will bet my house that Ireland would veto any EU action that led to a border with NI. It would be absolutely unpalatable to them.

It wasn't just them bombing us remember. You think if the UK stops policing the nutjobs in the North they'll just sit down and have a cup of tea?
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What kind of house is it?

Ireland,if face with a choice between a border between them and the rest of the EU or a border between them and NI. Will absolutely put a border in NI. Then squarely blame the UK for forcing them to do so.

The orange phalanx will absolutely respond to a renewal of violence... Doesn't help us much does it... Almost all of which will be in NI... Which is UK Territory. So increased policing costs to add to the no deal bill. And you know... Loss of life.
 
DTA said:
What kind of house is it?

Ireland,if face with a choice between a border between them and the rest of the EU or a border between them and NI. Will absolutely put a border in NI. Then squarely blame the UK for forcing them to do so.

The orange rude boys will absolutely respond to a renewal of violence... Doesn't help us much does it... Almost all of which will be in NI... Which is UK Territory. So increased policing costs to add to the no deal bill. And you know... Loss of life.
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Ireland can veto both, why would they accept either?
 
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