• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

SpurMeUp said:
So you've 'gamed' the EU? Sadly it doesn't work. We're not going to smuggel our goods via Ireland in some kind of surreptitious system to avoid tariffs. It's not going to work. Action would be taken whether at the French border or with penalities. In short you end up with a border. Who cares who erects it or where. It is a fantasy to suggest there wouldn't be a border. And as mentioned, England would want full border controls to see who's coming in and out. Once you have that border, there is an ideological as well as physical barrier. One that has been associated with violence for 100 years.
Click to expand...

No one wants the border so if we leave the EU without enforcing one then the border issue becomes the EU's no? Like mentioned earlier we are ok as we can reject people at the NI ports and Airports or at point of Entry on this Isle. Simple
 
Gutter Boy said:
Equivalence is the key word in this. That's all the EU has to do, agree on the mutual recognition of British standards and regulatory regimes, either in general or in the specific sectors they care about (i.e. agri-foods).

The EU already does this with other non-EU countries (e.g. data equivalence with the US).
Click to expand...

But how would the EU punish us then? And make an example?

You need to get your priorities straight GB. This isnt about whats best for all, this is about being punitive to the naughty UK for wanting to follow a path not prescribed by the EUs ever closer union.

If youre not with us, youre against us!


Have to say I found this hysterical earlier:
"We will make it very clear to our friends - we're talking to the Irish today - what the limits are and what we want to do. We're very confident that with goodwill on both sides, two mature political entities, the UK and EU, can get this thing done."

Firstly that Boris, of all people, is talking about being mature - and secondly that he expects to find maturity or goodwill on the other side of the fence.
 
Grays_1890 said:
No one wants the border so if we leave the EU without enforcing one then the border issue becomes the EU's no? Like mentioned earlier we are ok as we can reject people at the NI ports and Airports or at point of Entry on this Isle. Simple
Click to expand...

It is far from simple. Isn't that clear? There is a 100 year old war, goods, people, trade terms, negotiations to consider. Remember Brexit was a victory of simple lies over complex truth. You can simplifiy it, but you won't find much truth in it.

The lack of border is of course our issue. The Eu has to have integreity for its customs union. Otherwise we could buy US clorinated chicken and feed it into the EU for example. So that means there has to be a border in Ireland or in the sea between Ireland and France. And if we fuk off the EU with such a childish approach, do you think the EU would ignore it and just give us a good trade deal? If France was playing silly buggers leaving the EU asking for everything and giving up nothing, would we acquiesce? Would we say, sure thing France mess about, and then demand great trading terms from us, we'll take that, or would we say..."do one you mugs". That is how we look to the whole world with this approach - mugs.
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
So you've 'gamed' the EU? Sadly it doesn't work. We're not going to smuggel our goods via Ireland in some kind of surreptitious system to avoid tariffs. It's not going to work. Action would be taken whether at the French border or with penalities. In short you end up with a border. Who cares who erects it or where. It is a fantasy to suggest there wouldn't be a border. And as mentioned, England would want full border controls to see who's coming in and out. Once you have that border, there is an ideological as well as physical barrier. One that has been associated with violence for 100 years.
Click to expand...
In order for that to work the EU will need a border between Ireland and the rest of the EU - again, Ireland will veto for obvious reasons.

It's not gaming the EU, it's using their need to protect their borders against imports against them. They want to put tariffs on imports, they want to enforce their own rules on how products are made, let them have the problem of creating a border. May went to Europe and gave them all our money just to sit around the table and leave the UK arguing over how we will put up the EU's border for them. I say fudge them and fudge that. We'll leave and we'll leave without a border - I ask again, where will they put that border and how will they do it?
 
scaramanga said:
In order for that to work the EU will need a border between Ireland and the rest of the EU - again, Ireland will veto for obvious reasons.

It's not gaming the EU, it's using their need to protect their borders against imports against them. They want to put tariffs on imports, they want to enforce their own rules on how products are made, let them have the problem of creating a border. May went to Europe and gave them all our money just to sit around the table and leave the UK arguing over how we will put up the EU's border for them. I say fudge them and fudge that. We'll leave and we'll leave without a border - I ask again, where will they put that border and how will they do it?
Click to expand...

You can't see that this childish approach is pure fantasy? The core of the EU is the customs union. There will be rules on maintaining its integrity that each nation has to respect. You havn't come up with some natty way to game the eu system, you've come up with a fantasy that would not stand up. Were anyone to try it (they wouldn't) the EU would just enforce the border at France until Ireland sorted out the customs breach. Just like they would for Spain if it started letting in Morocan goods in.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It is far from simple. Isn't that clear? There is a 100 year old war, goods, people, trade terms, negotiations. Remember Brexit was a victory of simple lies over complex truth. You can simplifiy it, but you won't find much truth in it.

The lack of border is of course our issue. The Eu has to have some kind of integreity for its customs union. So that means a border in Ireland or in the sea between Ireland and France. And if we fuk off the EU with such a childish approach, do you think we'll get a good trade deal? If France was playing silly buggers leaving the EU asking for everything and giving up nothing, would we acquiesce? Would we say, sure thing France mess about, and then demand great trading terms from us, we'll take that, or..."do one you mugs". That is how we look to the whole world with this approach - mugs.
Click to expand...

Surely Ireland and the EU has responsibility to this too though? I am not going to go into history but this is not just down to the UK to resolve, the EU is using this like a bargaining chip on us? Ireland wanted independence and Ireland are in the EU, let them work iit out
 
scaramanga said:
In order for that to work the EU will need a border between Ireland and the rest of the EU - again, Ireland will veto for obvious reasons.

It's not gaming the EU, it's using their need to protect their borders against imports against them. They want to put tariffs on imports, they want to enforce their own rules on how products are made, let them have the problem of creating a border. May went to Europe and gave them all our money just to sit around the table and leave the UK arguing over how we will put up the EU's border for them. I say fudge them and fudge that. We'll leave and we'll leave without a border - I ask again, where will they put that border and how will they do it?
Click to expand...

Spot on
 
Grays_1890 said:
Surely Ireland and the EU has responsibility to this too though? I am not going to go into history but this is not just down to the UK to resolve, the EU is using this like a bargaining chip on us? Ireland wanted independence and Ireland are in the EU, let them work iit out
Click to expand...

Put it this way, if a bomb goes off in London, who's "responsibility" is it? It was not that long ago that this was the reality.
 
SpurMeUp said:
You can't see that this childish approach is pure fantasy?
Click to expand...

Whats good for the goose ey?

The EU has spent the last 2 years goading us with social media tweets and threats and we have sat and taken it as they and we felt we were fair game.

Now we play that back and make it their problem, ohhh its childish.

Come on
 
Grays_1890 said:
Whats good for the goose ey?

The EU has spent the last 2 years goading us with social media tweets and threats and we have sat and taken it as they and we felt we were fair game.

Now we play that back and make it their problem, ohhh its childish.

Come on
Click to expand...

So it is pretty much like a barnie with some forign football fans to you! If it hits you on this kind of emotive level, then you can't see the economic, political and logistic issues - whcih potentially include the loss of life in Britian! Brexit is not really abotu sovereign national pride. (that was Farrage's genuis). It's really about trade and how we configureour international setup. But the reality ofthe EU is around trade. The heart of the EU is a customs union - a place to trade freely without impairment.
 
SpurMeUp said:
So it is pretty much like a barnie with some forign football fans to you!
Click to expand...

not not at all

You are saying that, I have never eluded to that or said anything of the sort.

Shame that you have to say such things to win over an argument, pretty shameful to what you are suggesting there.

The facts are that the EU has bullied and goaded us like we have it all to lose, my point is then the boot is on the other foot its not liked, in fact your reaction says that to me too, you are ok with their action but the reaction does not sit too well with you? Thats hypocrisy and I could so alot more but I won't resort to it
 
Grays_1890 said:
not not at all

You are saying that, I have never eluded to that or said anything of the sort.

Shame that you have to say such things to win over an argument, pretty shameful to what you are suggesting there.

The facts are that the EU has bullied and goaded us like we have it all to lose, my point is then the boot is on the other foot its not liked, in fact your reaction says that to me too, you are ok with their action but the reaction does not sit too well with you? Thats hypocrisy and I could so alot more but I won't resort to it
Click to expand...

Lets talk actions not emotions. What actual real actions have the EU taken? I bolded your text which was all emotion.It had nothing to do with trade.
 
SpurMeUp said:
What were you doing in 1993? Imagine one of your family members was killed in this bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Bishopsgate_bombing Would you say, ah that's Irelands problem?
Click to expand...

My dad worked in London every day during this and as a family there was real fear on his life so yeh I an my family had skin in the game as he was close to a few things then.

But the root of the problem is the IRA not Londons responsibility per say as much as it is Londons responsibility for the London Bridge attack.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back