Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Rorschach]

I wonder will the Boris/Bannon vid that has surfaced (showing Boris lying again) have any effect on the outcome of the leadership contest. It doesn't seem to be getting a huge amount of airplay surprisingly.

 

[Rorschach]

I don't think people who were planning on voting for Johnson are going to be put off by that -- or put off by much else to be honest.

Fair point.

Amazing that this turd has floated to the top. UK politics is in some state.

 

[scaramanga]

“People like that”...I see.

Nothing like the curation and potential further development of a police state, where people go where they’re told and are only heard when the powermongers want to hear them.

I think “people like that” might be the ones who save us from drowning in the increasingly belligerent seas of tossers erupting in places like that.

There's no need for a police state, just people not ruining good meals for others. The guest lists and memberships for that kind of place are exclusive for a reason - it's really not very enjoyable when people like her are around.

I'm sure nobody would complain if she turned up at the local Gregg's or JD Sports, so she should probably spend her time where she'd be more welcome.

 

[scaramanga]

Fair point.

Amazing that this turd has floated to the top. UK politics is in some state.

£500 a month though.....

 

[Rorschach]

£500 a month though.....

I love the way you stay on message.

 

[parklane1]

Sigh.
And I suppose he answer is to bring back the birch???
If you really want to debate why we are where we are I will happily engage. But it has nothing much to do with “soft” and everything to do with powerful people wrangling stupidity as well as lack of education and the lack of importance placed on values. Which again has nothing to do with “going soft”...

Listen mate i am not going into a debate about this with you ( no point), i can agree with the bolded bit but for the rest we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[thfcsteff]

So as a peaceful protest do you think they/she had a right to be there?

You highlight crime in way that suggests you don't feel it was a crime so I would prefer to flip that question to you, what punishment do you think their actions fit?

I would also ask you, if someone suggested to you that you go and protest a dinner which had some of the higher profile UK MPs and be the one that makes the way towards the front to approach the speaker would you do it without believing there would be any consequence? What do you think the consequence would be in the US if you did the same at a dinner full of congress?

I'm not Tory and I've no time for the guy that escorted her out, however if anyone thinks you go to a dinner of high profile MPs with intentions to protest and do so without some consequence I would say there is elements of delusion.

People peacefully break onto the pitch of football games to advertise and get man handled off, including women, I seem to remember the woman at the CL final wasn't exactly treated with care.

Consequences are one thing. Nobody is suggesting she couldn’t have expected to be removed. However the WAY she was removed was disgraceful, and if I knew any bloke who behaved like that towards a woman, words would most certainly be exchanged.

 

[thfcsteff]

So as a peaceful protest do you think they/she had a right to be there?

You highlight crime in way that suggests you don't feel it was a crime so I would prefer to flip that question to you, what punishment do you think their actions fit?

I would also ask you, if someone suggested to you that you go and protest a dinner which had some of the higher profile UK MPs and be the one that makes the way towards the front to approach the speaker would you do it without believing there would be any consequence? What do you think the consequence would be in the US if you did the same at a dinner full of congress?

I'm not Tory and I've no time for the guy that escorted her out, however if anyone thinks you go to a dinner of high profile MPs with intentions to protest and do so without some consequence I would say there is elements of delusion.

People peacefully break onto the pitch of football games to advertise and get man handled off, including women, I seem to remember the woman at the CL final wasn't exactly treated with care.

Consequences are one thing. Nobody is suggesting she couldn’t have expected to be removed. However the WAY she was removed was disgraceful, and if I knew any bloke who behaved like that towards a woman, words would most certainly be exchanged.

 

[thfcsteff]

There's no need for a police state, just people not ruining good meals for others. The guest lists and memberships for that kind of place are exclusive for a reason - it's really not very enjoyable when people like her are around.

I'm sure nobody would complain if she turned up at the local Gregg's or JD Sports, so she should probably spend her time where she'd be more welcome.

...not one of your better retorts. The ginger/bingo wings one was much better!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

No no NO, it is NOT “madness”, it is a reminder that thankfully, some people can see an absolute coward and clown shoe when presented with video evidence!

So a protester got into their dining room. Wow. How terrible. In fact, SO fudging terrible that it is imperative she be shoved up against a pillar and frog-marched outside whilst being gripped by the neck and shoved along. Yeah. What a tremendous “man” he is. Tell you this, had it been ME he would’ve whimpered behind the bread basket and whined for security!

She did NOT go to his home, so even introducing that into the discussion is deflection. And even if she had, find another fudging way to deal with it 6ft 2” mighty man!

Imagine -just imagine- if he’d said to her he would talk for a few minutes. Not only would he have received positive press, he’d have handled the situation like a proper boss. Instead he showed what a giant fudging coward he was...

I find it unbelievable that anyone can find any defence of his behaviour TBH.

I did not say she went into his home. At all. In your enthusiasm to jump on that high horse you didnt even read the post.

I said HE is being treated as though he went into HER home and dragged her out. Such is the response (and just take a look at your effort the last page).

This was a private function. With the Chancellor sat at the head table. It wasnt trafalger square and a cheese sandwich at lunchtime.

She had no right whatsoever to be there. None. And after storming a PRIVATE function, you think she should have been afforded time and attention for a quick chat?!

SHE HAD NO RIGHT TO BE THERE.

And I also contest prior posts stating it as a peaceful protest. A peaceful protest is standing outside waving placards. What do you call it when someone storms into a venue and makes a direct run at the top table? Certainly not peaceful, on the spectrum of behaviours its far nearer "terrorism" than "peaceful protest".

And then there is the double standard of it all. If it was a guy I guarantee the reaction would be completely different.

Hows that for equality heh? Women are equal except theyre not.

 

[SpurMeUp]

The MP and protestor's behavious is not really the issue here. Protestor went into private event the MP used greater aggression and force than was appropraite. Not really a massive issue as he just about held himself back from smacking her. What is more shocking is that people condone such agression against women from a public servant in high office; when another approach would have sufficed. If that is you, and you are comfortable with such violence against women, so be it.

 

[Grays_1890]

There's no need for a police state, just people not ruining good meals for others. The guest lists and memberships for that kind of place are exclusive for a reason - it's really not very enjoyable when people like her are around.

I'm sure nobody would complain if she turned up at the local Gregg's or JD Sports, so she should probably spend her time where she'd be more welcome.

I just spat my coffee out at that.

5 stars

 

[scaramanga]

...not one of your better retorts. The ginger/bingo wings one was much better!

It wasn't meant to be amusing - it's just accurate.

If she wants to attend events at Mansion House then she has the option to do as the rest of us do and become a valued contributor to society. Subsequently, if she wants her voice and/or opinion heard at such events then she can become a recognised expert in her field and get invited to speak. From there she can spout whatever nonsense she wishes. Until then, her opinions belong on placards somewhere out of the way of all of the important people.

 

[scaramanga]

Another Tory MP indicating that there are enough of them to mean that Johnson's government would lose a vote of no confidence to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...y-coup-deal-brexit-tobias-ellwood-jeremy-hunt

Tobias Ellwood, the junior defence minister, said it was possible that the decision by Johnson actively to seek no deal could push some Conservatives to support a no-confidence motion against his government.


“I believe that absolutely is the case,” Ellwood told the BBC. “I think a dozen or so members of parliament would be on our side, would be voting against supporting a no deal and that would include ministers as well as backbenchers.”

__________________

I am looking forward to Johnson becoming PM and dealing with this sh1t.

It's no more than a threat. Even Conservative MPs have the intelligence to understand how much more damage a Corbyn government could and would do.

 

[scaramanga]

You hope...

There's always the backup of intelligent Labour MPs. When we're talking such small differences you don't need many.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

The MP and protestor's behavious is not really the issue here. Protestor went into private event the MP used greater aggression and force than was appropraite. Not really a massive issue as he just about held himself back from smacking her. What is more shocking is that people condone such agression against women from a public servant in high office; when another approach would have sufficed. If that is you, and you are comfortable with such violence against women, so be it.

They're Tories, they're entitled, they can do what they like....

 

[Grays_1890]

The MP and protestor's behavious is not really the issue here. Protestor went into private event the MP used greater aggression and force than was appropraite. Not really a massive issue as he just about held himself back from smacking her. What is more shocking is that people condone such agression against women from a public servant in high office; when another approach would have sufficed. If that is you, and you are comfortable with such violence against women, so be it.

Said like he did so just walking down the street to a woman minding her own business.

The last part in bold is just spin to make people feel bad about the view. However I am able to split the two, I have never and would never strike a woman am hugely against domestic violence, however this was not, she was invading somewhere she shouldn't and in a climate where the is a high risk of attacks on political figures from the worse of Jo Cox to the latest of milkshake gates, we can all sit here with the power of hindsight and say "I would have done this and done that" or "did they have any weapons" etc etc but thats all crap, no one can sit and say how they would have reacted because you didn't live the moment so any other hindsight filled reactions would be disingenuous

 

[Robspur12]

I did not say she went into his home. At all. In your enthusiasm to jump on that high horse you didnt even read the post.

I said HE is being treated as though he went into HER home and dragged her out. Such is the response (and just take a look at your effort the last page).

This was a private function. With the Chancellor sat at the head table. It wasnt trafalger square and a cheese sandwich at lunchtime.

She had no right whatsoever to be there. None. And after storming a PRIVATE function, you think she should have been afforded time and attention for a quick chat?!

SHE HAD NO RIGHT TO BE THERE.

And I also contest prior posts stating it as a peaceful protest. A peaceful protest is standing outside waving placards. What do you call it when someone storms into a venue and makes a direct run at the top table? Certainly not peaceful, on the spectrum of behaviours its far nearer "terrorism" than "peaceful protest".

And then there is the double standard of it all. If it was a guy I guarantee the reaction would be completely different.

Hows that for equality heh? Women are equal except theyre not.

Gatecrashing is probably a less OTT description than Storming I agree she shouldn't be there. Just how you remove her is the only disagreement.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Gatecrashing is probably a less OTT description than Storming I agree she shouldn't be there. Just how you remove her is the only disagreement.

I understand that. I would ask though - how well do you suppose someone handle that situation when they havent been trained in how best to do so?

You have clearly had that training and know a lot better, but I can tell you that I havent - and theres every chance were I to try and stop someone getting past me that it would probably end up being quite clumsy and heavy handed.

Without the intent to hurt or be violent, just trying to stop someone and remove them - chances are it would be a lot like what happened with Field.

There is a huge difference between what he did and him being some sort of woman beating violent asshole, and to be honest I feel like people are really blurring the lines between the two.

Yes, he could have handled it better. No, I dont think the response to what happened is at all proportional/appropriate. And yes, I think that is in very large part because she was a woman, were it a guy I cannot imagine the same posts being made her (and response in the press/from Labour etc).

 

[Grays_1890]

I did not say she went into his home. At all. In your enthusiasm to jump on that high horse you didnt even read the post.

I said HE is being treated as though he went into HER home and dragged her out. Such is the response (and just take a look at your effort the last page).

This was a private function. With the Chancellor sat at the head table. It wasnt trafalger square and a cheese sandwich at lunchtime.

She had no right whatsoever to be there. None. And after storming a PRIVATE function, you think she should have been afforded time and attention for a quick chat?!

SHE HAD NO RIGHT TO BE THERE.

And I also contest prior posts stating it as a peaceful protest. A peaceful protest is standing outside waving placards. What do you call it when someone storms into a venue and makes a direct run at the top table? Certainly not peaceful, on the spectrum of behaviours its far nearer "terrorism" than "peaceful protest".

And then there is the double standard of it all. If it was a guy I guarantee the reaction would be completely different.

Hows that for equality heh? Women are equal except theyre not.

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