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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Robspur12 said:
Yes I much preferred it when violence and bullying women was more widespread and hushed up, and abusing children was just seen as something of a rite of passage. Unsurprisingly most of the opinions on here are from men.

We have come a long way from a time when bullying women was acceptable I for one am glad about that. Society is better when people respect each other.
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Talk about going over the top, what i said has nothing to do with bullying women or abusing children and you need to take a breath if you think that. As for my point (Country has gone soft) do you think that punishment through the courts is fair and putting toe rags on probation and " work in the community" is actually making he streets safer for everyone?.

She was somewhere she was not supposed to be and could have been carrying anything, what IF she had been carrying a knife and actually hurt somebody, would you be still be saying that he overeacted?
 
Rorschach said:
I think we need to sign someone quick. This place is getting cabin fever.
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81015261.jpg









(I really hope the intent of this post comes across)
 
parklane1 said:
Talk about going over the top, what i said has nothing to do with bullying women or abusing children and you need to take a breath if you think that. As for my point (Country has gone soft) do you think that punishment through the courts is fair and putting toe rags on probation and " work in the community" is actually making he streets safer for everyone?.

She was somewhere she was not supposed to be and could have been carrying anything, what IF she had been carrying a knife and actually hurt somebody, would you be still be saying that he overeacted?
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I always laugh when I hear people go on about the system being soft on crime. You do get some judges making perverse decisions but generally the judiciary was something to be proud of. We have tariffs for crimes that's how people are sentenced. It is not perfect but have you been inside a prison? Not a nice place I can assure you.

My experience was people got away with crimes or got lighter sentences for several reasons. One of which there were not many experienced coppers around and the ones that were left were often inexperienced or overwhelmed. They didn't know how to or couldn't put decent cases together. Hence lesser charges were presented, so it follows the tariffs are lower or cases dropped.

Additionally I have been involved in plenty of cases such as the example of trying to prosecute a drug dealer, where people give it the big I am until we asked for a statement or to appear in court and then suddenly don't want to get involved. And it's not just the chavs either, the middle classes were just as bad. So again we had to go for lesser charges or drop the case. In other cases witnesses were fudging useless and would never survive cross examination.

It's so easy to say we are soft on crime but the issues like everything are never Black and White. It's far more complex. Hence I became disillusioned and left the Police.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
To those that support this MPs actions, a few Questions:

- would you yourself handle a women like that in a similar situation or would you take a little more care and restraint?
Impossible to say knowing the situation and being in it, would love to say yes but wouldn't be so disingenuous to say so

- would you sanction someone doing that to you if you were protesting?
KNowing the risks of protesting in a place I shouldnt be sure

- should public servants, representatives of the people, be free to be aggressors and throw their weight around?
Wide subject, I would put that more down to their situation rather than their job title, goes back more to the first point.

- had the protestor been bigger, stronger and male do you think this MP would have used the same force and aggression?
Can you say the same otherwise? We would both be lying by guessing the outcome

I’m ashamed at most of you. What happened to British gentlemen?
He was not opening a door this was a break into an event that is made easier to defend in hindsight with he didn't have. Your questions seem disingenuision based on this being your last summary, why ask opinion when you have already made a judgement? Weird

Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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the dza said:
:D

To be honest, I have no issue with him preventing her going towards the chancellor, but he was a bit unnecessarily rough imo. Good to see the protestor isn't involving the old bill, job done for them that the protest has got loads of publicity now.
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Im on this but surely thats it, draw line under it and move on? GP got their PR and ts all sorted?
 
Robspur12 said:
I always laugh when I hear people go on about the system being soft on crime. You do get some judges making perverse decisions but generally the judiciary was something to be proud of. We have tariffs for crimes that's how people are sentenced. It is not perfect but have you been inside a prison? Not a nice place I can assure you.

My experience was people got away with crimes or got lighter sentences for several reasons. One of which there were not many experienced coppers around and the ones that were left were often inexperienced or overwhelmed. They didn't know how to or couldn't put decent cases together. Hence lesser charges were presented, so it follows the tariffs are lower or cases dropped.

Additionally I have been involved in plenty of cases such as the example of trying to prosecute a drug dealer, where people give it the big I am until we asked for a statement or to appear in court and then suddenly don't want to get involved. And it's not just the chavs either, the middle classes were just as bad. So again we had to go for lesser charges or drop the case. In other cases witnesses were fudging useless and would never survive cross examination.

It's so easy to say we are soft on crime but the issues like everything are never Black and White. It's far more complex. Hence I became disillusioned and left the Police.
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Thanks for the insight. What is your take/knowledge of the apparent rising crime in London? Especially as this is used as a thinly-veiled stick to whack Khan with when it seems that the blame largely falls elsewhere.
 
Robspur12 said:
I always laugh when I hear people go on about the system being soft on crime. You do get some judges making perverse decisions but generally the judiciary was something to be proud of. We have tariffs for crimes that's how people are sentenced. It is not perfect but have you been inside a prison? Not a nice place I can assure you.

My experience was people got away with crimes or got lighter sentences for several reasons. One of which there were not many experienced coppers around and the ones that were left were often inexperienced or overwhelmed. They didn't know how to or couldn't put decent cases together. Hence lesser charges were presented, so it follows the tariffs are lower or cases dropped.

Additionally I have been involved in plenty of cases such as the example of trying to prosecute a drug dealer, where people give it the big I am until we asked for a statement or to appear in court and then suddenly don't want to get involved. And it's not just the chavs either, the middle classes were just as bad. So again we had to go for lesser charges or drop the case. In other cases witnesses were fudging useless and would never survive cross examination.

It's so easy to say we are soft on crime but the issues like everything are never Black and White. It's far more complex. Hence I became disillusioned and left the Police.
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Let me try and answer your post by saying firstly i have nothing but admiration for those who are working on the streets and trying to protect the public and nothing i have said is against them at all.

No i have never been inside a prison either as a guest or a visitor and i have no desire to do so. But as far as i am concerned i hope they are "Not a nice place I can assure you." as you say, they should not be and i have no sympathy for those that end up there. If judges make perverse decisions ( again your words) then more fool them.

As for another of you points "not having enough experienced coppers around" well they should be and ( imo) is not a good enough excuse for lesser charges and getting soft on crime.

My main problem though is not the police themselves,as you would know better then me they are understaffed and probably under budgeted, its the pussy arsed social worker who believes there is goodness in everyone and that everyone deserves another chance( and another one and then another one).

I understand that not everything is not " Black or White" but to say that we are not soft on crime is ( imo) wrong and i would suggest that if you were to ask those who live in the built up areas around our country they would 100% back that up.

There is a old saying " if you can not do the time then do not do the crime" nowadays that is laughed at by the scumbags etc as they usually get a slap on the hand and let go to commit more crime.
 
Grays_1890 said:
To those that support this MPs actions, a few Questions:

- would you yourself handle a women like that in a similar situation or would you take a little more care and restraint?
Impossible to say knowing the situation and being in it, would love to say yes but wouldn't be so disingenuous to say so

- would you sanction someone doing that to you if you were protesting?
KNowing the risks of protesting in a place I shouldnt be sure

- should public servants, representatives of the people, be free to be aggressors and throw their weight around?
Wide subject, I would put that more down to their situation rather than their job title, goes back more to the first point.

- had the protestor been bigger, stronger and male do you think this MP would have used the same force and aggression?
Can you say the same otherwise? We would both be lying by guessing the outcome

I’m ashamed at most of you. What happened to British gentlemen?
He was not opening a door this was a break into an event that is made easier to defend in hindsight with he didn't have. Your questions seem disingenuision based on this being your last summary, why ask opinion when you have already made a judgement? Weird
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Lots of presumptions from you. "Weird"

For what its worth I'm not too bothered. Someone was protesting, someone got kicked out. Big deal. What is worrying is people are definding an MP laying hands on a peaceful women. That she won - got publicity - and he got suspended just shows you it was foolish behaviour.

If it was a bigger stronger fella, the MP wouldn't have grabed a man in such an aggressive manner. That shows cowidice. Pray on the weak. So I would not condone his actions, the PM would not, I am just suprised that people are on here condoning it.

@scara its not someone's home, its a public event. People walk into things they are not supposed to all the time. That does not give grounds for aggression in and of itself. And you summed it up by saying you yourself would not act in the way he did. Storm in a tea cup - yes sure. But it was not appropraite force or an example to others.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Lots of presumptions from you. "Weird"
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NO presumptions, I am basing what I saw not what I think

What I saw was forceful ejection we can debate that as we both see it.

Would he do it to a man? Neither can say as we don't know and its a guess so lets not make brick up.
 
Watching the video again, I'm not convinced the force was all that excessive.

Those bingo wings alone must have weighed a couple of stone and taken some shifting. He was probably (rightly) also a bit scared of getting ginger on him.
 
scaramanga said:
Watching the video again, I'm not convinced the force was all that excessive.

Those bingo wings alone must have weighed a couple of stone and taken some shifting. He was probably (rightly) also a bit scared of getting ginger on him.
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To late, he touched her.
Right now his dna is being altered for the better, sorry (to appease your Modlyness) altered for the worse. :)
 
AuroRaman said:
Thanks for the insight. What is your take/knowledge of the apparent rising crime in London? Especially as this is used as a thinly-veiled stick to whack Khan with when it seems that the blame largely falls elsewhere.
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Thanks mate. This problem is far bigger than Sadiq Khan. I like Sadiq and voted for him but he has made mistakes, (which politician hasn't?). The rise in crime I don't think is just confined to London but around the country.

One of my biggest worries is not that we are soft on crime per se, but we have created a perfect environment for organised crime to flourish. There something in the news about this a few months back from the National Crime Agency. Other than that I don't think it is being taken seriously enough other than a few high profile drug busts.

Part of the reason are cuts to different agencies. The police always shout the loudest of course, but agencies like the Custom's arms of HMRC have been cut to the bone so there is not enough enforcement on smuggling. Local authorities who I now work for have been cut to the bone and their powers diluted because the civil liberties phalanx fear they will misuse them. On the last point from my experience Police officers are much more likely to abuse powers than LAs. So for example many agencies do not understand the data protection laws and do not want to share information in the mistaken belief that they will breach the law.

The criminals exploit loopholes in law, are adept with technology often much more than the enforcement agencies, they understand social media and exploit the weaknesses of the enforcement agencies including the fact that some of our lawyers are just not good enough.

Lots of Police officers do an amazing job, but the Met has issues with recruitment, competence etc. Numbers alone are not the answer but ensuring we have well trained officers who understand the law and to use them more tactically. So for example I have questioned why the Police are devoting so much resource to investigating Grenfell which is ostensibly a fire safety and health and safety issue.

Finally the politicians of all parties have failed to get a grip on this problem as they have become so paralysed by Brexit. I cannot see that changing anytime soon unfortunately.

I hope I have given a reasonable answer to your question mate. I could go on all night but I would just bore you.
 
Robspur12 said:
Thanks mate. This problem is far bigger than Sadiq Khan. I like Sadiq and voted for him but he has made mistakes, (which politician hasn't?). The rise in crime I don't think is just confined to London but around the country.

One of my biggest worries is not that we are soft on crime per se, but we have created a perfect environment for organised crime to flourish. There something in the news about this a few months back from the National Crime Agency. Other than that I don't think it is being taken seriously enough other than a few high profile drug busts.

Part of the reason are cuts to different agencies. The police always shout the loudest of course, but agencies like the Custom's arms of HMRC have been cut to the bone so there is not enough enforcement on smuggling. Local authorities who I now work for have been cut to the bone and their powers diluted because the civil liberties rude boys fear they will misuse them. On the last point from my experience Police officers are much more likely to abuse powers than LAs. So for example many agencies do not understand the data protection laws and do not want to share information in the mistaken belief that they will breach the law.

The criminals exploit loopholes in law, are adept with technology often much more than the enforcement agencies, they understand social media and exploit the weaknesses of the enforcement agencies including the fact that some of our lawyers are just not good enough.

Lots of Police officers do an amazing job, but the Met has issues with recruitment, competence etc. Numbers alone are not the answer but ensuring we have well trained officers who understand the law and to use them more tactically. So for example I have questioned why the Police are devoting so much resource to investigating Grenfell which is ostensibly a fire safety and health and safety issue.

Finally the politicians of all parties have failed to get a grip on this problem as they have become so paralysed by Brexit. I cannot see that changing anytime soon unfortunately.

I hope I have given a reasonable answer to your question mate. I could go on all night but I would just bore you.
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Thank you mate, opposite of boring. Really good to get your experience and knowledge.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
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