Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[glasgowspur]

I agree about Farage. As with all single issue politicians, they don't really want to win their issue - that's the end of them if they do.

Yes, will be interesting how the new MEPs handle it once they realise they are on the EU gravy train.

 

[Gutter Boy]

You say that but and thats good for you as a white male, but my friend was abused in the street and told to 'fudge off out of the country... we voted brexit.'

I was in Liverpool on Tuesday and saw two Asian guys being called Pakxx and screaming Brexit... While telling everyone that he fought for the country.

What about all the black and brown spouses and family members who are denied visas because of the EU's pro-white immigration policy?

 

[DTA]

What about all the black and brown spouses and family members who are denied visas because of the EU's pro-white immigration policy?

How is that EU immigration policy? We in the UK are free to set our own non EU immigration policy.

 

[r-u-s-x]

And 64% didn't vote because of the contempt they hold the EU in

Do you believe that?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Not everyone that voted for Brexit is racist.

...but every racist voted for Brexit. Which is unfortunate is you don’t wish to be associated with the far right.




Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[SpurMeUp]

Sitting on the fence is an option long term. Whomever carries this poison chalice is in risk of a long stint in the doldrums (unless they miraculously make a good job of it), as the single issue politics slides into the rear view mirror, those with least damage can thrive again. Don't be too drawn in by what are essentially protest votes.

Mays deal is dead. In what form will it live on.

As for her threatening to leave without a deal...more akin to the Lion in Wizard of Oz..'put em up, put em up!'

I know all your answers lead back to the same diatribe about staying in. And I don't disagree that that's an option and realistically no deal is the only other option. (All the in-between stuff is fruitless) On balance I think we're better staying in, not because of any reason other than we don't have the squad to take this country anywhere viable.

If we do stay in though, I'm not sure where that leaves us politically with regards to the people who wanted out , plus I'm not even sure of the pathway to get there.

I get your sentiment. Would be sad for this empowering the UK movement to fall apart. I actually think the right kind of PM could harness this UK nationalist spirit to do something quite radical in the UK. Introduce conscription for out of work layabouts, get the army cleaning up our towns, nationalise some industry, introduce some online voting to indicates preferences (with great care and educational vids/forums) to involved disaffected peoples in politics. To harness the ownership that people have with politics and nationhood at the moment.

What I find frustrating with Brisket right now is none of the debate is honest at the moment. Politicians are ‘pandering to the people’. Rather than explain the reasons Brexit is not working; instead they are trying to say - we hold our hands up - we didn’t deliver. Sucking to Farage and essentially making false promises. When you dissect it, whoever is running the show, there is no Brexit that doesn’t leave us in worse shape. Why are politicians afraid to explain why this is the case?

I also wonder if people really understand a no deal exit. London would change. Maybe for the better in some ways. Who’s to judge? The old or the young? When I was a kid there were many many empty properties, get on the tube in the middle of the day and there’d be one other person on the carriage sometimes. Unthinkable now in our overcrowded city. But going back to a less successful London would mean massive financial hardship. For example, would we take homes losing 50%+ of their value. Foreign holidays being a lot more pricey, having much less cash in your pocket which doesn’t go as far. A NHS with less money to spend etc etc...in short there is no going back. Only forwards. We just need politicians with vision who are not selling snake oil.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Gutter Boy]

...but every racist voted for Brexit. Which is unfortunate is you don’t wish to be associated with the far right.

Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Chris Williamson?
Naz Shah?
Ken Livingstone?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

You say that but and thats good for you as a white male, but my friend was abused in the street and told to 'fudge off out of the country... we voted brexit.'

I was in Liverpool on Tuesday and saw two Asian guys being called Pakxx and screaming Brexit... While telling everyone that he fought for the country.

Alongside Nepal's finest no doubt.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I said it would not be easy but short term pain for long term gain was order of the day, we are voting for not the next 3 months but the next 300 years etc etc etc.

Where remain have dropped the ball, in my opinion, is the continued denial that Brexit it still a thing, even after last night regardless of how you spin it, Brexit as well as Remain is a live argument, but to ignore it to gain some political oneupmanship, is again to ignore whats infront of you.

And to answer to bold, Corbyn was so wrapped up in Brexit he offered neither Brexit or remain to his party in order to try and further his own political career and his party died a death.

Ultimately its one big cluster F--K on both sides, there is no getting away from that.

Brexit is very much a thing. That is the problem. It was supposed to be easy. It ain’t. Farage, Stephen Hawkins, and Chuck Norris could be in charge of delivering Brexit and we’d be no better off.

What is it you see in 300 years? How will cutting off from neighbouring nations sort us out?

But you are right Brexit is a thing. The EU elections were proxy votes for or against Brexit. Therefore we need to let people vote for real on some kind of exit plan - when the cards are on the table and we can see exactly what will be delivered. Then we will vote and we will have a resolution one way or tother.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[SpurMeUp]

Chris Williamson?
Naz Shah?
Ken Livingstone?

Try reading it again. Not everyone who voted Brexit is racist (the vast majority are not) but every racist voted Brexit.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I also wonder if people really understand a no deal exit. London would change. Maybe for the better in some ways. Who’s to judge? The old or the young? When I was a kid there were many many empty properties, get on the tube in the middle of the day and there’d be one other person on the carriage sometimes. Unthinkable now in our overcrowded city. But going back to a less successful London would mean massive financial hardship. For example, would we take homes losing 50%+ of their value. Foreign holidays being a lot more pricey, having much less cash in your pocket which doesn’t go as far. A NHS with less money to spend etc etc...in short there is no going back. Only forwards. We just need politicians with vision who are not selling snake oil.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

These days people are generally not prepared to go through any pain to reach something or somewhere better...they just don't have the appetite for it. Collective spirit/motivation/direction just isn't there, (probably a product of the self-interested, self-centred, screen addicted nation) combine that with a lack of Poch/Levy type dream teams to lead the way and there is (sadly) little point, and most likely a dangerous proposition.

You have to be careful with what you perceive to be downsides. Most first time buyers in the South-East are pushing 40...50% reduction = yes please. It's an example of re-balancing, one of the main reasons for all the recent political turmoil...the gap between the haves and have nots growing and often times perceived unfairly so.

Currencies have forever and a day fluctuated, many times in our favour meaning we can feel rather rich abroad. Recent times not so much, but certainly no further than feeling things are on a par with costs at home. Besides think of all the tourists coming into our country thinking 'england is expensive'..well boo hoo if it s a bit round the other way, we'd have to cut our cloth accordingly and of course the kicker is tourism here would benefit.

The NHS will need help, study foreign systems of PMI and cherry pick those that make sense. Complete potential opt out for some people and generous tax breaks for companies that go all in on looking after their staff.

The de-centralisation economically from London is worth investigation especially if we go it alone, industry, agriculture, will have to return as the service industry will contract. Long term vision required though. Real money creation rather than the thin air model. If we are worried about food and energy, you make them your starting points.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Try reading it again. Not everyone who voted Brexit is racist (the vast majority are not) but every racist voted Brexit.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

They are 3 racists who not only voted, but campaigned, for remain

 

[scaramanga]

You say that but and thats good for you as a white male, but my friend was abused in the street and told to 'fudge off out of the country... we voted brexit.'

I was in Liverpool on Tuesday and saw two Asian guys being called Pakxx and screaming Brexit... While telling everyone that he fought for the country.

Do you think that was the actions of racists using Brexit as yet another excuse for their beliefs or non-racists reacting to Brexit by becoming racists?

 

[DTA]

Do you think that was the actions of racists using Brexit as yet another excuse for their beliefs or non-racists reacting to Brexit by becoming racists?

Yeah I get it, I assume they were almost certainly Racist before Brexit, but I think an arguement can be made that Brexit has emboldened the racists.

Statistically there has been an increase in hate crimes since the referendum.

 

[scaramanga]

Yeah I get it, I assume they were almost certainly Racist before Brexit, but I think an arguement can be made that Brexit has emboldened the racists.

Statistically there has been an increase in hate crimes since the referendum.

I'd like to see those statistics.

I've been suspicious of crime statistics ever since Tony Blair solved knife crime by taking a snapshot on a rainy September and comparing it to a sunny one.

 

[Dicko]

Now that the prospect of getting any kind of compromise deal is getting less and less likely are there any politicians that are 100% No Deal, and have suggested why it could be the best option. Genuine question. Is there anyway for them to convince the masses that No Deal could work out for the best or is it for sure that a No Deal would be more catastrophic than a soft brexit in the long term?

 

[P.D.]

Now that the prospect of getting any kind of compromise deal is getting less and less likely are there any politicians that are 400% No Deal, and have suggested why it could be the best option. Genuine question. Is there anyway for them to convince the masses that No Deal could work out for the best or is it for sure that a No Deal would be more catastrophic than a soft brexit in the long term?

There's very few (if any) who activeley want no deal over anything else, most want a deal (generally a free trade agreement) but are comfortable walking away with no deal if something can't be agreed.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Complaining that Corbyn wasn't nice to May. Ha, ha. You are a joke mate. Yeah after Grenfell and all the rest. She didn't shed any tears for those poor buggers, did she, but blubbed over losing her job. Typical selfish Tory.

BTW Nayimfromthehalfwayline, I go after ALL Tory sock puppets. So don't think that you are anything special.

This is hilarious.

Ive lost count of the times Ive told you specifically (let alone spoken in general) - I am not a Tory. Not at all. Ideologically Id should really be more Lib Dem, but they are far from a party worth even discussing in the most part.

You "go after" people, do you? How does that fit with your lefty sensibilities exactly? Pretty well I would imagine.

Its the lefties with the aggression, the name calling, the superiority complex, the faux enlightenment, and the rather militant approach to discussion in this thread.

And you are a zealot, so it makes sense you would fill the part the best.

I dont like Labour. Havent since Blair. Not because I am a Tory. But because successive leaders and parties have utterly failed over the years. There is nothing there for me to support. Which is a shame because broadly I should be on board with at least half of what they are supposed to represent.

Corbyn? Bad news. Very bad news. And yet people have gone full L'ron Hubbard on him for some reason, damned if I can see why.

None of which means I support the Tories. And this is the fun bit, you are so far into your religion here you cant see past the "if theyre not a Corbynite they must be Conservative", can you?

There are plenty of Labour lefties on here I have nothing but respect for. I dont agree with all they say, but I certainly agree with at least some of it and always respect (and enjoy) their posts in discussion. And for those guys I apologise if they dont like this post.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Now that the prospect of getting any kind of compromise deal is getting less and less likely are there any politicians that are 400% No Deal, and have suggested why it could be the best option. Genuine question. Is there anyway for them to convince the masses that No Deal could work out for the best or is it for sure that a No Deal would be more catastrophic than a soft brexit in the long term?

The problem for No Deal is it's always been left there as the undesirable (somesay Armageddon) option. There has been no educated comment from the politicians that actually do think it's an option.

Once again drowned out in soundbites and noise.

Remember No Deal was better than a bad deal at one point. They are sh.it scared of No Deal...end of.
Basically because that's what has been shouted in their ear. It would be a bold step, but we don't have anyone bold.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Tory leadership candidate Jeremy Hunt has warned that his party will be committing "political suicide" if it tries to push through a no-deal Brexit.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the move to no-deal would result in a general election, which could see Labour take power.

The foreign secretary is one of 10 people seeking to replace Theresa May.

One leadership contender, Esther McVey, said "political suicide" would be not leaving the EU at the end of October.

The deadline the EU has set for Brexit is 31 October.

The official leadership race for Conservative party leader gets under way in early June, after Theresa May stands down - but jostling between candidates has already begun.

The winner, expected to be named by late July, will also become prime minister.

Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Mr Hunt said the "only solution" to deliver Brexit was to change the withdrawal agreement that Prime Minister Theresa May has negotiated with the EU, which has been voted down by MPs three times.

The EU has consistently refused to reopen the negotiations, but the foreign secretary said creating a new UK negotiating team - including members of Northern Ireland's DUP and members of the Tory pro-Brexit European Research Group, as well as representatives from Scotland and Wales - would "give the EU the confidence that any offer can be delivered through Parliament".

He claimed the main issue that needed addressing in the withdrawal agreement was the Irish backstop - the policy to prevent a hard border returning between Ireland and Northern Ireland that has proved controversial with a number of Brexiteers.

"If you go to [the EU] with the right tone, with a deal that recognises their legitimate concerns over the border of Ireland, if you go with a negotiating team that gives them the confidence you can deliver with a majority in the House of Commons, you have the prospect - I don't say the guarantee - but you have the prospect of getting a deal," he said.

Writing in The Daily Telegraph, Mr Hunt also warned the Conservatives would be "annihilated" and "face extinction" if there was a general election before Brexit happened.

He says he has always believed that no-deal is better than no Brexit but warns that a prime minister advocating no-deal would risk losing a confidence vote in Parliament - so committing to a general election.

"Trying to deliver no deal through a general election is not a solution; it is political suicide," he writes, adding it would "probably put Jeremy Corbyn in No 10 by Christmas".

New contender joins race
Housing Minister Kit Malthouse has become the latest Tory MP to join the race to become party leader.

Writing in the Sun newspaper, Mr Malthouse said the campaign "cannot be about the same old faces" and described himself as "the new face, with fresh new ideas".

He told BBC News he was "the only candidate that has proven the ability to unify MPs around a Brexit plan that could deliver us out of this jam", after he brought together Leave and Remain-supporting Conservative MPs in January to devise an alternative Brexit proposal known as the "Malthouse Compromise".

Mr Malthouse - who voted to leave the EU - said his "primary objective" was to secure a deal before the 31 October deadline, but said it was still necessary to prepare for the possibility of no deal.

Meanwhile, fellow leadership-hopeful Mr Gove has pledged to allow EU nationals in the UK at the time of the referendum to apply for citizenship free of charge.

He has said he wants to give as many as three million people from elsewhere in the EU who live in the UK an easier path to citizenship after Brexit.

As part of the plan, he would remove the requirement of EU citizens to provide proof of their right to be here - getting rid of the so-called 'settled status' scheme.

A source close to the environment secretary said: "This is simply the right thing to do - honouring the promise of Vote Leave that EU nationals studying, working and living in the UK were welcome to stay."

Meanwhile, Tory rival, International Development Secretary Rory Stewart, is promising a "listening exercise" on Brexit.

And The Sun reports that rival contender Health Secretary Matt Hanrooster has written to ITV, BBC, Sky and Channel 4 to ask them to broadcast a live debate between those vying for the Tory leadership.



Theres going to be a lot of this, isnt there?