***OMT TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v nottingham forest***

[fernadez]

I don’t think I would because that leaves his philosophy and his utterances to date in tatters. The whole selling point of Ange is his way of playing. To go back on it now, whatever the circumstances, kills him IMO. If he did and got a result, every time we hit a rough patch, he’ll be asked to be more practical.

He’s made his bed now, he has to lie in it and hope his beliefs are proven to be right. That this is just the dark before the dawn. As I’ve always said, I think it’d be great for football if he was right. However, he is increasingly sounding and looking like the emperor with no clothes.

This is where I disagree.

Philosophy isn't about 'its this or nothing else', it's about the ethos and idea behind what you're doing. I feel he could make any number of tactical changes that don't undermine his way of playing or his philosophy.

If the full backs went on the outside etc nobody would point and laugh at him especially with the injuries. Systems are meant to evolve, or did he play this way from his first ever game in charge and it's never changed? When did he reach the point that he felt he'd master football tactics and no alterations needed to be made?

That's what's killing him, not being wed to playing attacking, expansive football. There's multiple ways to do that.

 

[suffolkspur]

I watched with father in law today and both of the same opinion. Had loads of possession and didn't create anything with it. Then we done by a pass straight through the centre of our team having lost possession high up pitch. How many times has that goal been scored against us this year?

And yet I like Ange, his attitude and philosophy and am trying to think we now have a younger squad with potential along with injury problems. I want him to be given till end of year.......but I'm not convinced he's going to be able to turn things around. I don't think he will be given the time if there's no up tickets in results by end of January.

 

[johnola]

He’s a likeable version of the Horizon IT system.

What defects?

 

[Raziel]

I can’t agree with that myself
I believe that with the right quantity of capable players we would see better performances
But I think we’re about 6 weeks away from seeing the players back and it’s unlikely they will be right to play

Come on mate

- We have lost the same number of games as Ipswich
- We have conceded more than Everton
- Pick a stat other than goals scored and it/we are brick
- And that's if you discount injuries being a direct result of how we play

Easiest game of Nuno's career to plan for

- Sit deep, work hard out of possession
- When you do get the ball, punt it over the top to a wide runner
- Rinse and repeat

Today was not good enough, we were predictable, we nothing to counter the obvious opportunities we would give them.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Come on mate

- We have lost the same number of games as Ipswich
- We have conceded more than Everton
- Pick a stat other than goals scored and it/we are brick
- And that's if you discount injuries being a direct result of how we play

Easiest game of Nuno's career to plan for

- Sit deep, work hard out of possession
- When you do get the ball, punt it over the top to a wide runner
- Rinse and repeat

Today was not good enough, we were predictable, we nothing to counter the obvious opportunities we would give them.

You’re making it sound like I’ve been saying we should have won today
It wasn’t good
I don’t think he got the line up right
But he is being caught out game after game with players being unavailable
If the current squad was the own he has for the pool game he will be starting Bergvall, Bissouma and a bentacur midfield
And I’m not sure who will play with gray at CB
The bench will be all kids. Average age will be bumped up by the 2 back keepers and Werner
No manager is gonna thrive in that situation
Nuno had the same game plan as normal. They got one good chance and scored
Sonny blew the best chance of the game. Fine margins against a very functional side
Something has to click or change but I don’t see the team changing much except for absentees

 

[Legohamster]

You’re making it sound like I’ve been saying we should have won today
It wasn’t good
I don’t think he got the line up right
But he is being caught out game after game with players being unavailable
If the current squad was the own he has for the pool game he will be starting Bergvall, Bissouma and a bentacur midfield
And I’m not sure who will play with gray at CB
The bench will be all kids. Average age will be bumped up by the 2 back keepers and Werner
No manager is gonna thrive in that situation
Nuno had the same game plan as normal. They got one good chance and scored
Sonny blew the best chance of the game. Fine margins against a very functional side
Something has to click or change but I don’t see the team changing much except for absentees

CBs, maybe he shouldn't have rushed both back for Chelsea. A mess of his own making

I have zero sympathy

 

[Bedfordspurs]

CBs, maybe he shouldn't have rushed both back for Chelsea. A mess of his own making

I have zero sympathy

We don’t know what he was told by the physios but it was daft
Said it as soon as it was named as a line up

 

[DeanoAustin]

This is where I disagree.

Philosophy isn't about 'its this or nothing else', it's about the ethos and idea behind what you're doing. I feel he could make any number of tactical changes that don't undermine his way of playing or his philosophy.

If the full backs went on the outside etc nobody would point and laugh at him especially with the injuries. Systems are meant to evolve, or did he play this way from his first ever game in charge and it's never changed? When did he reach the point that he felt he'd master football tactics and no alterations needed to be made?

That's what's killing him, not being wed to playing attacking, expansive football. There's multiple ways to do that.

He can certainly make tweaks. Like he did v City at home last year. But if the full backs sit in or we start managing the game, it undermines everything he’s said to date. He can make tweaks without compromising himself but he has limited scope to do it without undermining himself IMO.

 

[Mikey10]

This is where I disagree.

Philosophy isn't about 'its this or nothing else', it's about the ethos and idea behind what you're doing. I feel he could make any number of tactical changes that don't undermine his way of playing or his philosophy.

If the full backs went on the outside etc nobody would point and laugh at him especially with the injuries. Systems are meant to evolve, or did he play this way from his first ever game in charge and it's never changed? When did he reach the point that he felt he'd master football tactics and no alterations needed to be made?

That's what's killing him, not being wed to playing attacking, expansive football. There's multiple ways to do that.

Exactly what Martin O’Neill (a pundit I have a lot of time for) was saying in both the pre and post-match today.

 

[fernadez]

Exactly what Martin O’Neill (a pundit I have a lot of time for) was saying in both the pre and post-match today.

I do like O'Neill used to be on BBC a lot but felt he talked too much sense with his analysis, rather than you usual sound bites they like. He'd actually give tactical insight.

 

[billyiddo]

This is where I disagree.

Philosophy isn't about 'its this or nothing else', it's about the ethos and idea behind what you're doing. I feel he could make any number of tactical changes that don't undermine his way of playing or his philosophy.

If the full backs went on the outside etc nobody would point and laugh at him especially with the injuries. Systems are meant to evolve, or did he play this way from his first ever game in charge and it's never changed? When did he reach the point that he felt he'd master football tactics and no alterations needed to be made?

That's what's killing him, not being wed to playing attacking, expansive football. There's multiple ways to do that.

I agree that philosophy is an overarching ethos, not the nuts & bolts of how you get there - but is that how the manager feels? Is he too wedded to the minutiae of his setup? Maybe I'm way off the mark but it feels, by seeing us repeatedly not addressing our defensive frailties, that he sees any potential focus (of him and the coaching team) on non attacking aspects of our game as a negative - why attempt to counteract our opponents when we should be focusing on how to attack them? Well at this level in order to achieve the desired attacking output you have to take the opposition in to account as well - they won't all be bowled over by a team that wants to attack.

 

[Muttley]

When we lost possession, here's where the players were.....

Solanke - up top, where he should be
Kulu - hugging the touchline on the right
Spence - was the one dispossessed in the number 10 position
Sarr - next to Spence, but just casually jogged back
Johnson - centre mid, but got bypassed......and then casually jogged back
Udogie and Bentancur - on the inside channel, in Ange's favourite non full-back position.
Gray and Dragusin - in their centre half positions
Son - never appeared on camera, so wide left and never chased back.

A match fit Destiny may have put the slide in, but he has been trained to stop when he gets to the defensive line. As soon as he runs back to the level that Gray and Dragusin are, then he goes no further as we play the offside trap. You can see him visibly slow down and he clearly played to instruction.

Bentancur was also doing what Ange has trained his centre mids to do. He became the full-back because Spence had gone to play at being a number 10. The problem is being a full-back in this system means you start 10 yards ahead of the centre circle in their half. Bents did a great job of getting back alongside Dragusin and into the back four as the right back. However, there was even a man wider than him completely unmarked. Bents may have saved the goal if it went to the his runner, but if it went wider then he would have been 2 on 1.

I've watched this goal multiple times. Once again, no defensive shield at all in the middle. Daft positions for full-backs to be in with their wide players at full pelt before they even get to accelerate. Players running at centre halves with no shield. Romero would have left the defence committed a foul, with the inevitable yellow. I've seen him get slaughtered by fans for doing that before as well. Gray chose to hold.

I am seriously losing patience with Ange at this point. He needs to start finding his practical head or he will fall on his sword. This goal was complete tactical ineptitude and little of it is on the players.

 

[Kandi1977]

I can’t agree with that myself
I believe that with the right quantity of capable players we would see better performances
But I think we’re about 6 weeks away from seeing the players back and it’s unlikely they will be right to play

And even after injured players are back, they'll be rusty, and the overworked players will still be overworked. Will take some time to get back to "normal" again, if at all this season. I'd go for the cups, and just try to hang on in the league, and try to snatch a place in Europe.

 

[Legohamster]

When we lost possession, here's where the players were.....

Solanke - up top, where he should be
Kulu - hugging the touchline on the right
Spence - was the one dispossessed in the number 10 position
Sarr - next to Spence, but just casually jogged back
Johnson - centre mid, but got bypassed......and then casually jogged back
Udogie and Bentancur - on the inside channel, in Ange's favourite non full-back position.
Gray and Dragusin - in their centre half positions
Son - never appeared on camera, so wide left and never chased back.

A match fit Destiny may have put the slide in, but he has been trained to stop when he gets to the defensive line. As soon as he runs back to the level that Gray and Dragusin are, then he goes no further as we play the offside trap. You can see him visibly slow down and he clearly played to instruction.

Bentancur was also doing what Ange has trained his centre mids to do. He became the full-back because Spence had gone to play at being a number 10. The problem is being a full-back in this system means you start 10 yards ahead of the centre circle in their half. Bents did a great job of getting back alongside Dragusin and into the back four as the right back. However, there was even a man wider than him completely unmarked. Bents may have saved the goal if it went to the his runner, but if it went wider then he would have been 2 on 1.

I've watched this goal multiple times. Once again, no defensive shield at all in the middle. Daft positions for full-backs to be in with their wide players at full pelt before they even get to accelerate. Players running at centre halves with no shield. Romero would have left the defence committed a foul, with the inevitable yellow. I've seen him get slaughtered by fans for doing that before as well. Gray chose to hold.

I am seriously losing patience with Ange at this point. He needs to start finding his practical head or he will fall on his sword. This goal was complete tactical ineptitude and little of it is on the players.

I do hope he doesn't use that goal as a reason to isolate Spence again once he is back from suspension.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

And even after injured players are back, they'll be rusty, and the overworked players will still be overworked. Will take some time to get back to "normal" again, if at all this season. I'd go for the cups, and just try to hang on in the league, and try to snatch a place in Europe.

That’s what I’ve hung onto
League cup is done because of the draw and timing
Get though Europa and build from there

 

[yiddo37]

I'm not even mad anymore.....just an empty void

Same here, just numb.
Watched the first half and thought we weren't too bad, not great by any means but conceded yet another easy goal. Didn't bother with the 2nd half.
The Amazon Prime curse strikes again.

 

[Mikey10]

Same here, just numb.
Watched the first half and thought we weren't too bad, not great by any means but conceded yet another easy goal. Didn't bother with the 2nd half.
The Amazon Prime curse strikes again.

I’m the same. I watch, but in a weirdly detached way.

I think it’s the culmination of years of awful decision making on the football side of the club, and the feeling that there isn’t really a ‘what will happen next’ for us while the current owners are in place; it’ll just be a slightly different version of what we’ve already seen, barring a very lucky appointment (i.e. Poch and ‘Arry).

 

[Bishop]

Poor showing from the team especially the forwards today on the wings...

Our wide players are crap, I've been singing that song since last season. Someone will no doubt say we score a lot, but it's really because we high risk football with an offensive overload. So sure we can score but we are always going to put our back line at risk to do so. Simply having decent wingers (we don't) should make a world of difference.

 

[Bishop]

It’s a strong team on paper
But not on energy
And as I’ve said loads we started with 10 men cos we have a ghost ok the left
Against a low block you need to be smarter and we wasted so much ball by not passing quickly
Kulu was bad too and that hurts us as he is the attacking driver
It will be worst potentially vs wokves with the loss of Spence and Drago

You mean 9, Johnson started as well.

 

[Mulletperm]

Our wide players are crap, I've been singing that song since last season. Someone will no doubt say we score a lot, but it's really because we high risk football with an offensive overload. So sure we can score but we are always going to put our back line at risk to do so. Simply having decent wingers (we don't) should make a world of difference.

Spot on. Lots of banging on about how brick the manager is, but I tell you what, there was a lot of players out there today who were absolutely dreadful.

- Johnson - lazy and cowardly again. Never running into space, jogging back when we were defending, lazy crosses.
- Son - has clearly lost it
- Bentancur - did well in handing possession over to the opposition
- Sarr - invisible
- Kulu - Not sure it was from instructions, but seemed to be taking up space on the right with Johnson. Constant wrong decision making.