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O/T The England Thread

Jurgen the German said:
This game has been quite entertaining. I think it's because we are so poor at the back. End to end stuff.
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Really enjoyed that second half. Would give the Ukrainians as much credit as our defenders for the openness, they really gave it a go. Laughable that Johnson mentioned as a possible man of the match, got owned by their winger. Much as I hate anything that is part of dullChelsea, quality penalty for Lampard. Wellbeck very handy when he came on, like him more and more for England.

From a Spurs point of view, good to see Defoe get more time practicing as the lone little guy front man, will come in handy when leaping for Brads long balls.

Pretty funny at the end, Blokhin offers Hodgeson an apologetic handshake and says that was never a red, while the linesman scurries off trying to get past Roy unseen. Hodgeson just sights him and goes "that was a disgrace that was"!
 
Ratings

Hart 6 - no chance with their goal, an absolute belter way beyond his reach into his top left corner

Johnson 6 - excellent going forward, sloppy at the back

Jagielka 4 - very ineffectual, kept giving the ball away

Lescott 6 - looked a donkey at times but overall held things together very well at the back

Baines 6 - decent first half, mixed second

Milner 4 - carthorse most of the time but improved late on

Gerrard 7 - England's best player by a margin, sending-off was harsh imo

Lampard 4 - well-taken penalty, otherwise invisible when not misplacing passes. Unbelievable that ITV gave him MOTM!

Oxlade-Chamberlain 3 - a night he will want to forget, reminded me of Bentley tonight the way he kept running down blind alleys

Cleverly 4 - GHod-awful apart from one decent strike against the woodwork

Defoe 6 - unlucky to have that quality strike disallowed

Subs

Wellbeck 7 - lively and influential from the moment he came on, won the pen but really should have scored earlier instead of hitting the woodwork

Sturridge 5 - so-so.

Bertrand 6 - impressively composed
 
------------------- Hart -----------------
Walker --- Terry --- Cahill --- Cole
----------- Parker --- Carrick --------
Lennon ------ Rooney ---------- Ox
--------------- Welbeck ---------------

Its not hard...
 
You know...tonight was one of the first qualifiers in ages that I've genuinely enjoyed watching England play. A few players were below par, but finally we had a team that kept possession, moved the ball around well, showed pace and tenacity and created plenty of chances.

Gerrard is probably the England player that's infuriated me most over the years as he's rarely played well for England, certainly nowhere near the level of performance he's given for Liverpool. But Euro 2012 was probably the first good international tournament he's had, and then he was outstanding tonight...up until the red card. Perhaps he's trying to make up for letting Hodgson down at Liverpool. Defoe is also proving to be a very good international level striker - it was his first 90 minutes in an England shirt tonight. Makes you wonder what could have been if Eriksson hadn't overlooked him for Heskey and Vassell in 2004 and then Walcott in 2006, or even if McClaren had used him more in Euro 2008 qualifying and if Capello had picked him in the first two games in 2010.

The future doesn't look as bleak as everybody is saying it is. We had a lot of young players out there today who played well, and with the likes of Rooney, Wheelchair, Walcott, Terry, Parker, Carroll etc to come back, we should still qualify for this tournament with relative ease, and whilst it's highly unlikely we'll win it, we can enjoy ourselves in Brazil.
 
I've said this before - I'll say it again - Redknapp should have been appointed ahead of someone who caved under the Lampard/Gerrard media reacharound within weeks and inisists on playing them in every game eventhough this partnership hasn't worked once in a decade. That is despicable and the self-promoted iPad football specialists around him should at the very least give advice on this

Defoe as the lone man - a player who's entire career has been formed around blasting (largerly inaccurate) shots from distance (he has very little to offer beyond that, imv) - a player who's link up play, hold-up play and aerial ability (against tall Ukranian defenders) is virtually non-existent, and is as versatile as an allen key.

Johnson ahead of Walker, my GHod

Carrick, arguably England's best ball-playing mid on the bench (and not even at the Euros)

etc.

Arry might not have been everyone's cup of tea as our manager but I firmly believe he would have been able to extract the optimum from the players available and play far more direct, attacking football as opposed to this dire toss of Parker-style 1-2s amongst the back 4.
 
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I really enjoyed the game - thought england were lovely to watch, and couldn't believe how well the team played with Defoe up top alone. Let's see some more of that!
 
benp said:
I really enjoyed the game - thought england were lovely to watch, and couldn't believe how well the team played with Defoe up top alone. Let's see some more of that!
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ZNZ-One.jpg
 
SUIYHA said:
You know...tonight was one of the first qualifiers in ages that I've genuinely enjoyed watching England play. A few players were below par, but finally we had a team that kept possession, moved the ball around well, showed pace and tenacity and created plenty of chances.

Gerrard is probably the England player that's infuriated me most over the years as he's rarely played well for England, certainly nowhere near the level of performance he's given for Liverpool. But Euro 2012 was probably the first good international tournament he's had, and then he was outstanding tonight...up until the red card. Perhaps he's trying to make up for letting Hodgson down at Liverpool. Defoe is also proving to be a very good international level striker - it was his first 90 minutes in an England shirt tonight. Makes you wonder what could have been if Eriksson hadn't overlooked him for Heskey and Vassell in 2004 and then Walcott in 2006, or even if McClaren had used him more in Euro 2008 qualifying and if Capello had picked him in the first two games in 2010.

The future doesn't look as bleak as everybody is saying it is. We had a lot of young players out there today who played well, and with the likes of Rooney, Wheelchair, Walcott, Terry, Parker, Carroll etc to come back, we should still qualify for this tournament with relative ease, and whilst it's highly unlikely we'll win it, we can enjoy ourselves in Brazil.
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Cleverley, Jagielka and Oxlade-Chamberlain were at best average but mostly poor. Couldn't hold on to the ball, couldn't pass, couldn't tackle. Baines was okay but certainly nothing special. Of the subs Wellbeck looked the part but Sturridge hardly showed and Bertrand did well but was not really tested.
 
ArcspacE said:
I've said this before - I'll say it again - Redknapp should have been appointed ahead of someone who caved under the Lampard/Gerrard media reacharound within weeks and inisists on playing them in every game eventhough this partnership hasn't worked once in a decade. That is despicable and the self-promoted iPad football specialists around him should at the very least give advice on this

Defoe as the lone man - a player who's entire career has been formed around blasting (largerly inaccurate) shots from distance (he has very little to offer beyond that, imv) - a player who's link up play, hold-up play and aerial ability (against tall Ukranian defenders) is virtually non-existent, and is as versatile as an allen key.

Johnson ahead of Walker, my GHod

Carrick, arguably England's best ball-playing mid on the bench (and not even at the Euros)

etc.

Arry might not have been everyone's cup of tea as our manager but I firmly believe he would have been able to extract the optimum from the players available and play far more direct, attacking football as opposed to this dire toss of Parker-style 1-2s amongst the back 4.
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Redknapp loves nephew Frankie and super Stevie G...top top players

Redknapp is a huge fan of Johnson, loves him

Parker would be in too

the only difference would be that Crouch would be in the squad too, impact sub most likely
 
As much as I agree Redknapp was made for the job, I also agree with Indian that he would not have broken the Gerrard/Lampard axis.

"Godo players can play together" and all that. He would have them in no question IMHO. Probably with Parker trying to cover their faiilings defensively.
 
It looks like England will play an end of season friendly against the Republic of Ireland at Wembley in May 2013.

This will be the first meeting between the two countries since the abandoned match in Dublin in 1995.
 
I personally though Stevie G deserved to be sent off, both bookings were bookings, the second was a challenge from behind, and although he got a biot of the ball, a challenge from behind is a booking.

Perhaps he was lucky not to have had the stamp in the first minute spotted(when he got injured). Replays showed he went over the ball and attempted to get the player but came off worse
 
Juicebox said:
I personally though Stevie G deserved to be sent off, both bookings were bookings, the second was a challenge from behind, and although he got a biot of the ball, a challenge from behind is a booking.

Perhaps he was lucky not to have had the stamp in the first minute spotted(when he got injured). Replays showed he went over the ball and attempted to get the player but came off worse
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We've also had 2 players in the last 5 years given straight reds for challenging in the air FAR less dangerously than Gerrard did for his 1st booking - Mido v Chelsea and Defoe v Villa away.
 
Don't really see the reason for the negativity on last night's performance. We had a good goal from Defoe disallowed, we had Cleverley and Welbeck missing absolute sitters and had another stonewall penalty turned down. We also tried to play good, fluid football and Ukraine scored from a screamer. Yes they had their moments but it's international football and they have some decent players, no match is going to be entirely without scares.

I think we played some players in the wrong positions. Can't see why we aren't playing Carrick if we are intending to play with fluidity as he is perfect for it. I don't think Cleverley has the goal threat needed to play as a number 10 and we found it hard to find Defoe by himself. But maybe if we could have found Cleverley easier, then we would have been able to reach Defoe too.

All in all, we could have won that game by a 2 or 3 goal margin last night and there would have been no complaints. We were just a bit unlucky, but it was a decent performance.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Don't really see the reason for the negativity on last night's performance. We had a good goal from Defoe disallowed, we had Cleverley and Welbeck missing absolute sitters and had another stonewall penalty turned down. We also tried to play good, fluid football and Ukraine scored from a screamer. Yes they had their moments but it's international football and they have some decent players, no match is going to be entirely without scares.

I think we played some players in the wrong positions. Can't see why we aren't playing Carrick if we are intending to play with fluidity as he is perfect for it. I don't think Cleverley has the goal threat needed to play as a number 10 and we found it hard to find Defoe by himself. But maybe if we could have found Cleverley easier, then we would have been able to reach Defoe too.

All in all, we could have won that game by a 2 or 3 goal margin last night and there would have been no complaints. We were just a bit unlucky, but it was a decent performance.
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Stonewall penalty?? Where, if you are referring to the embarassing dive by Welbeck then no way. I don't remember any other shouts for a penalty.

Cleverley and Wellbeck missed sitters, yes, that alone is a reason to be concerned, they should be hitting the net from 6 yards out.

Tried to play fluid football and failed miserably, the right hand side was head down and run with no purpose then stand around watching after losing the ball.

Players in wrong positions, yes, 5 of them were on the wrong side of the touchline for starters.

Cleverley is no number 10, agreed, he was shoehorned into that role so Roy could play him, Lampard and Gerrard in a system that none of them fitted into.

Could have won by 2 or 3 goals? Should have more like, these are games we should be winning not getting a point out of with a 86 th minute penalty.

A decent performance, now i know you're having a laugh.
 
camspur said:
Stonewall penalty?? Where, if you are referring to the embarassing dive by Welbeck then no way. I don't remember any other shouts for a penalty.

Cleverley and Wellbeck missed sitters, yes, that alone is a reason to be concerned, they should be hitting the net from 6 yards out.

Tried to play fluid football and failed miserably, the right hand side was head down and run with no purpose then stand around watching after losing the ball.

Players in wrong positions, yes, 5 of them were on the wrong side of the touchline for starters.

Cleverley is no number 10, agreed, he was shoehorned into that role so Roy could play him, Lampard and Gerrard in a system that none of them fitted into.

Could have won by 2 or 3 goals? Should have more like, these are games we should be winning not getting a point out of with a 86 th minute penalty.

A decent performance, now i know you're having a laugh.
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I follow the England team with interest (not sure why!) and thought it wasnt a great performance last night. It wasn't however as bad as some of the capello performances. At least we tried to play the ball on the ground. Although ironically i think that is the kind of game capello's england would have won.

what was dissapointing is how long it took us to actually start attacking them in the second half. it was only really when wellbeck came on when things opened up a bit. it makes you wonder what the hell roy was doing by playing cleverly as the number 10 with defoe up front. wellbeck at least calls for the ball.

england are a real mess and have been for a while but at least we didnt lose. that would have been hard to come back from. san marino next wahay!
 
Blimey. It seemed just a few years ago that we had an embarrassment of riches up front. Shearer, sheringham, cole, Sutton. Now we're just an embarrassment.
 
camspur said:
Stonewall penalty?? Where, if you are referring to the embarassing dive by Welbeck then no way. I don't remember any other shouts for a penalty.

Cleverley and Wellbeck missed sitters, yes, that alone is a reason to be concerned, they should be hitting the net from 6 yards out.

Tried to play fluid football and failed miserably, the right hand side was head down and run with no purpose then stand around watching after losing the ball.

Players in wrong positions, yes, 5 of them were on the wrong side of the touchline for starters.

Cleverley is no number 10, agreed, he was shoehorned into that role so Roy could play him, Lampard and Gerrard in a system that none of them fitted into.

Could have won by 2 or 3 goals? Should have more like, these are games we should be winning not getting a point out of with a 86 th minute penalty.

A decent performance, now i know you're having a laugh.
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The penalty could have easily been called on another night.

Players missing chances that they will score 9 times out of 10 doesn't really concern me, certainly not from a performance perspective.

We didn't fail to play fluid football, we actually made a pretty good fist of it considering the amount of injuries that took to the squad. I don't think Milner is really ideal for a position in the '3' in a 4-2-3-1, regardless of whether he's supposed to be a foil for Johnson. The full backs should always be providing an outlet in a fluid system and the cover should come from the 2 midfielders at the base IMO. Don't think Cleverley is suited to a number ten role behind a striker either, and they are important positions we didn't have the players for. But even considering that, I thought we played quite well.
 
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