Next Spurs Manager v.2

[camspur]

He's a massive improvement in every way over Timmeh, he just seems like a disappointment because he's a long way behind some of the names we've heard mentioned.

His record this season says otherwise, a lower points per game and win %age than TS. If he's such a good manager he would've have been able to lift those stats compared with such a dumbass as TS

 

[Seedy Ron]

His record this season says otherwise, a lower points per game and win %age than TS. If he's such a good manager he would've have been able to lift those stats compared with such a dumbass as TS

SCBC's best ever top flight season isn't it?

Edit - not sure about this, thought I'd heard it on MotD.

 

[diego_maradona]

His record this season says otherwise, a lower points per game and win %age than TS. If he's such a good manager he would've have been able to lift those stats compared with such a dumbass as TS

So you're saying Tim would have taken Soton to 6th/7th this season and as many points as they got? Nothing to do with the respective qualities of the squads?

 

[scaramanga]

His record this season says otherwise, a lower points per game and win %age than TS. If he's such a good manager he would've have been able to lift those stats compared with such a dumbass as TS

If the only way you can back Timmeh to stay is to remove all context from your statements then it says as much about Timmeh as it does your choices/reasoning.

Pochettino is managing a team who (outside of two positions) would probably accept our reserves as first choices. He's adding value to that team IMO - not something that can be said of Timmeh.

He would still be far from my first choice, but a much, much better alternative to what we have.

 

[camspur]

If the only way you can back Timmeh to stay is to remove all context from your statements then it says as much about Timmeh as it does your choices/reasoning.

Pochettino is managing a team who (outside of two positions) would probably accept our reserves as first choices. He's adding value to that team IMO - not something that can be said of Timmeh.

He would still be far from my first choice, but a much, much better alternative to what we have.

Not backing TS to stay at all, my point is Pochettino isn't the answer either.

As for TS not "adding value" compare his stats for this season with AVB's and see who had the better stats, if its TS then he "added value" in comparison to what we had.

 

[Dicko]

Scara you just take a few days off on holiday.. By the time you come back they'll be no need to debate the merits of Timmeh ever again.

 

[NWND]

My Take:

LVG: I think we dodged a bullet here. I don't profess to know an enormous amount about him, but he seems a bit unhinged and that with Levy and some pretty unsettled looking players would be a combination which would only end in tears.

Pochettino:I just don't get it. OK, he's taken Southampton to an 8th place finish, but which clubs below Southampton have a squad as good as Southampton AND a half-decent manager. Sure Southampton finished 8th. Well done. But the reality is that that amounts to being the best of the sh*t teams. The tallest dwarf. Etc.
For me, he's a man who after a long time in the country, still can't speak English and was no better than average at his previous club. The only box he ticks is 'experience of the premier league'. Well AVB ticked that one too. Ditto Moyes going to Man U. Don't be fooled into thinking he'll bring all of Southampton's best players - of course he won't. Firstly, the two or three we'd be interested will all be wanted by Arsenal, United, Liverpool - why would they come to us? Also, do we think the chairman is going to give us his manager and then let us take his best players? I think not. And please don't say 'he plays the Tottenham way'. I've been supporting Spurs for over 30 years - we've spent far less time playing 'the Tottenham way' in that time than we have playing 'the sh*t, underachieving way'. I'd take turgid 2-1 victories if they result in some proper silverware and a top 4 finish. We're not Barca or Real. We need to get winning, ugly if needs be, get some defensive steel and score some goals. A decent manager should be able to get this squad doing that. I will be massively disappointed if we end up with this guy.

Benitez: I thought Benitez was ok when he was at Liverpool, putting aside his mad press conferences and general 'put-upon' demeanour. But that is no doubt why the scourers loved him. One of them. He did well at Liverpool, finished 2nd, won the CL, got to another final. He also did well in his short time at Chavski - didn't they win the Europa, get to the FA Cup semi-final and finish top 4 with him? Pretty good given what was happening when he took over.

FdB: He's definitely proved he knows what he's doing with Ajax - no titles in 6 or so years and he comes in and they win 4 on the bounce. That is impressive, without doubt. He'd also have the massive draw of being able to get the best out of Vertonghen and Eriksen, two players i think are amongst a small group (along with Lloris, Sandro, Soldado and Lamela) who if we can get playing at their best, week-in week-out, will result in us doing very well. I think the players would be impressed with him in a way they mightn't be with Pochettino or similar. FdB's woken a sleeping giant and won 4 titles on the bounce whereas Pochettino? He's got Southampton playing some nice stuff and they're the best of the rest. The agony of choice. The other thing i like about FdB is that he was a defender - i strongly believe that is where you start - good solid defence, defend as a team, attack as a team.

So for me, on balance, it's FdB first choice and Benitez second choice. My only concern with FdB is whether his record at Ajax reflects his ability or that of the club/team? I think the capitulation of Man United and the improvement at Liverpool has made a lot of people sit up; lots of us used to think anyone could manage that Man U team to a top 3 finish - seems not. Likewise, lots of us would have said that, Suarez aside, that wasn't a team capable of scoring 100 goals and running the league title to the last game of the season - Rodgers has set them up brilliantly. I know, i know, they didn't have Europa League and they've spent a lot of money and they didn't have a managerial change last summer, all of which put them at an advantage, but they have played some extraordinary stuff this season - they play from the back and they attack in waves. That hasn't just happened, Rodgers has got them playing like that. And that to me shows its about (a) getting the right manager and (b) giving him a season to bed in, get his players in and then get it right.

Christ you say Pochettino's 8th place finish and record ever points total with Southampton as being the tallest dwarf, but reckon getting by far the biggest club in a crap league like Holland to win 4 titles on the bounce is highly impressive? Okay............

 

[braineclipse]

His record this season says otherwise, a lower points per game and win %age than TS. If he's such a good manager he would've have been able to lift those stats compared with such a dumbass as TS

But...but...but....

You're comparing points per game between two managers managing different squads and different clubs. How a direct comparison like that be useful?

 

[camspur]

Scara you just take a few days off on holiday.. By the time you come back they'll be no need to debate the merits of Timmeh ever again.

Hopefully he'll be gone by next week (TS not Scara) my concern is whoever we appoint we're going to be massively underwhelmed by them. I can't see any manager being available who can take us to the level everyone seems to want.

 

[NWND]

Hopefully he'll be gone by next week (TS not Scara) my concern is whoever we appoint we're going to be massively underwhelmed by them. I can't see any manager being available who can take us to the level everyone seems to want.

Well unlike some I don't think one season of scraping into the CL via the play-offs means that we should demand top 4 every season.

I just want a positive GD of double figures, to give the top clubs a real tough game, beat all the crap, make a go of the cups, not be a complete embarrassment and play with a swagger and win plaudits and friends for our style of play.

 

[braineclipse]

Well unlike some I don't think one season of scraping into the CL via the play-offs means that we should demand top 4 every season.

I just want a positive GD of double figures, to give the top clubs a real tough game, beat all the crap, make a go of the cups, not be a complete embarrassment and play with a swagger and win plaudits and friends for our style of play.

That would be a very good start.

A lot of the posts in the "What Tottenham do you want" thread were also fairly reasonable..

 

[camspur]

But...but...but....

You're comparing points per game between two managers managing different squads and different clubs. How a direct comparison like that be useful?

Isn't that the only way you can compare managers by comparing how well the teams they have managed have performed.

Pochettino has achieved no more at Southampton than Hughes at Stoke or Pulis at Palace but we wouldn't want either of them would we?

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Hopefully he'll be gone by next week (TS not Scara) my concern is whoever we appoint we're going to be massively underwhelmed by them. I can't see any manager being available who can take us to the level everyone seems to want.

We've helped develop players further so why not do the same with a manager?

Look, my expectations will be lowered next season and I'd strongly advise you do the same to avoid anymore stress. I could be wrong but I can't see us being able to much to the top four until the new stadium is built (if the CPO goes through that is) unless Levy has some mega trick up his sleeve.

We've still got a very good squad and a good future but now we're evidently on a knife's I really wouldn't keep those high expectations tbh.

 

[braineclipse]

Isn't that the only way you can compare managers by comparing how well the teams they have managed have performed.

Pochettino has achieved no more at Southampton than Hughes at Stoke or Pulis at Palace but we wouldn't want either of them would we?

I don't think of performance just as a final points per game score! Why would it be?

You seem a bit undecided. First you say that that if he was a good manager he would have a higher ppg than Sherwood. Then you say that he has done no better than Hughes despite demonstrably having a higher ppg score that Hughes. So, can these direct ppg comparisons be made between managers at different clubs, or not? (for me the answer remains "clearly not")

The Pulis debate has been done to death and unless you're about to put forward a good argument that hasn't been presented yet that's not for me...

 

[NWND]

Isn't that the only way you can compare managers by comparing how well the teams they have managed have performed.

Pochettino has achieved no more at Southampton than Hughes at Stoke or Pulis at Palace but we wouldn't want either of them would we?

Hang on, how many more points have Southampton got than Stoke and Palace? Pulis has done a good job of turning Palace round, for sure, but lets see how they get on with a full season under their belt.

Hughes has had a similar squad/budget to Southampton and they're quite a bit behind points/performance wise.

Pochettino also came in an improved Southampton mid-season and in his first full season he has their record ever performance and has taken x3 journeymen players and turned them into England world-cup certainties (well Rodriguez would have been on the plane if not for injury).

 

[camspur]

I don't think of performance just as a final points per game score! Why would it be?

You seem a bit undecided. First you say that that if he was a good manager he would have a higher ppg than Sherwood. Then you say that he has done no better than Hughes despite demonstrably having a higher ppg score that Hughes. So, can these direct ppg comparisons be made between managers at different clubs, or not? (for me the answer remains "clearly not")

The Pulis debate has been done to death and unless you're about to put forward a good argument that hasn't been presented yet that's not for me...

My argument is purely I don't think that Pochettino has achieved as much as everyone else claims he has, if helping a newly promoted team to mid-table is an achievement let's just appoint Jos Luhukay.

 

[braineclipse]

Pochettino:I just don't get it. OK, he's taken Southampton to an 8th place finish, but which clubs below Southampton have a squad as good as Southampton AND a half-decent manager. Sure Southampton finished 8th. Well done. But the reality is that that amounts to being the best of the sh*t teams. The tallest dwarf. Etc.
For me, he's a man who after a long time in the country, still can't speak English and was no better than average at his previous club. The only box he ticks is 'experience of the premier league'. Well AVB ticked that one too. Ditto Moyes going to Man U. Don't be fooled into thinking he'll bring all of Southampton's best players - of course he won't. Firstly, the two or three we'd be interested will all be wanted by Arsenal, United, Liverpool - why would they come to us? Also, do we think the chairman is going to give us his manager and then let us take his best players? I think not. And please don't say 'he plays the Tottenham way'. I've been supporting Spurs for over 30 years - we've spent far less time playing 'the Tottenham way' in that time than we have playing 'the sh*t, underachieving way'. I'd take turgid 2-1 victories if they result in some proper silverware and a top 4 finish. We're not Barca or Real. We need to get winning, ugly if needs be, get some defensive steel and score some goals. A decent manager should be able to get this squad doing that. I will be massively disappointed if we end up with this guy.

1. He can speak English. As has been pointed out repeatedly.

2. If "he was no better than average" was a fair summary of his time at Espanyol why do you think the now rather highly rated then Southampton chairman Nicola Cortese took the rather large risk of firing the popular and successful Nigel Adkins to bring in Pochettino?

How much do you actually know about Pochettino's time at Espanyol? What is your basis for saying that he was "no better than average"?

 

[Cotswold]

Christ you say Pochettino's 8th place finish and record ever points total with Southampton as being the tallest dwarf, but reckon getting by far the biggest club in a crap league like Holland to win 4 titles on the bounce is highly impressive? Okay............

Which clubs with a better squad/manager combo did Southampton finish above?
Point I make is that on paper, that is pretty much where Southampton should be finishing.
Agree with you Ajax are the biggest in Holland but hadn't won anything for 6 or so years and then won it 4 out of 4. I think that is more impressive than 'best points tally for Southampton in the premier league'.

 

[NWND]

My argument is purely I don't think that Pochettino has achieved as much as everyone else claims he has, if helping a newly promoted team to mid-table is an achievement let's just appoint Jos Luhukay.

It's not just that, though, is it? Its his development of neglected or under used players and DRAMATICALLY improved them to the level of international players for a top 20 national team.

Lambert is 32, Lallana is 26 and Rodriguez is 24, where have they been? Have they been hiding under a rock all this time?

Its the style of play as well, he's not just got them to midtable, they've been playing some of the best football in the division and have outplayed a lot of the top 7 teams when they have played them and given them a mighty scare.

 

[Cotswold]

1. He can speak English. As has been pointed out repeatedly.

2. If "he was no better than average" was a fair summary of his time at Espanyol why do you think the now rather highly rated then Southampton chairman Nicola Cortese took the rather large risk of firing the popular and successful Nigel Adkins to bring in Pochettino?

How much do you actually know about Pochettino's time at Espanyol? What is your basis for saying that he was "no better than average"?

He won about 50 out of 160 games and took them to two mid-table finishes. I'd say that was pretty average.
The fact that Southampton sacked Adkins to bring him in isn't necessarily the best criteria to assess his ability.
Adkins has just failed to get Reading into the play-offs he having overseen their relegation from the Premiership last season.