Gazza
Frederic Kanoute
How many games out of interest? The journalists in the Netherlands seem to rate him very very highly
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New New Manager Poll (The Lets Get It Right This Time Edition)
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
How many games out of interest? The journalists in the Netherlands seem to rate him very very highly
You're right and we don't have to go over what Poch did for us, everyone here recognises what he did.
But we are at the big boys table, everyone here is ok in making out we are one of the top teams and should be top 4 and at the start of the season posters are always predicting we will win this cup or that cup. But then we dont, there's always all the same old excuses to hide behind. If Poch was such a magician then you would think that with all the semis and finals we got to he would have got us over the line at least once but he didn't. Why? Because it's not easy to win, no matter who you are in this country. Arteta actually did win the FA Cup with a pretty average team, just like Leicester did it and not only the 'freak' league win but recently the FA Cup too, just like Portsmouth and Wigan have done in more recent times than we have.
At the level we are at, or portray we are at winning trophies is what you will and should be judged on - not the who finished highest in comparison to wage expenditure or whatever other favourable stats we can find. We can make out Arsenal 'choking' is some sort of negative, well I look forward to the day when we are ever 9 points ahead of City. City have a far deeper squad, and the fact City have reeled them in was predictable and hardly a stick to beat Arteta with. If that had happened to Poch you can only imagine the defensive posts being written on here - but Poch never had us good enough to be 9 points clear at the top of the league against anyone let alone this City side.
So yes, Arteta has achieved more than Poch did at Spurs and that is no slant on what Poch did for us.....
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
It’s not “a certain segment” mate. It would be a majority of the fan base. Plus given he has been our best manager in the PL it’s odd the club aren’t considering him. I can only think it is for non footballing reasons.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Which managers are we talking to? Not Nagelsman anyway, as Bayern haven't given permission for that to happen yet and he still has 3 years on his contract with thrm.
I think we'll get the DoF in in the next few weeks, then start speaking to managers during June
Yiddo
Ian Walker
I watched 7 or 8 games in the Europa league.
Yeah, we haven't talked to Nagelsman because Bayern haven't given permission, just like a player under contract never gets spoken to by other clubs
Baleforce
Martin Peters
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
It’s an argument that could be made both ways and no one is going to agree. I do think the Poch argument stacks up well against the evidence . Arteta didn’t just pick up a mediocre team btw. They had reached the final of the Europa League the season before, losing to Chelsea. They had also finished 5th. Poch on the other hand picked up the mess that was the AVB/Sherwood team. Arteta could focus on an FA cup when he didn’t have to compete elsewhere, as I say they finished 8th. That’s important. Poch had to finish in those top 4 positions to generate money. It made winning a trophy harder. And let’s be clear Arteta has built a side and has been very well supported by his board. Arsenal are not Leicester. They have the 3rd biggest net spend of all the PL Teams in the last 5 years. Poch never had that embarrassment of riches. Yet had us push the Chelsea side who did not have euro football close.
Plus I don’t buy City cannot be beaten, Arsenal if they fail to win are chokers. Remember Klopp’s Liverpool? They did it and in the season they failed to overturn City they pushed them to within one point, knocked them out of the CL and then won the CL too. City are playing a game every 3-4 games at the moment Arsenal are playing one game a week. In reality Arsenal have done well but based on matches between them this season they are way behind city still and if they win it will be because City are going for the impossible and will run out of steam.
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Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Not last year, maybe last season and there were good reasons for that in hindsight. Reasons still being played out now.
Baleforce
Martin Peters
yeah, but he didn’t handle it that well either, even if it was ultimately just the players being clams
Their cup final line up: Martinez, Holding, Luiz, Tierney, Bellerin, Ceballos, Xhaka, Maitland-Niles, Pepe, Lacazette, Aubameyang
That is a pretty average looking team to me.
Yes Arsenal have spent a lot, but you still have to be a good coach to get them to win and play the way they are - and it's not like they have signed a load of ready made superstars. It just makes me laugh how for Poch there is excuses for just about every possible element of why things went wrong and why we didn't win anything but for coaches of other teams what they achieve (and in some cases actually achieve something quantifiable) it is all too easily downplayed.....
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
It’s not an excuse though? I try to be as objective as I can. It’s like saying why doesn’t De Zerbi win a trophy? Because unfortunately there are limits on your ability to do so. There were in Poch’s time that were not the same limits Arteta has had. ArsenL have been more patient with Arteta They have also spent massively. Yes they have spent and recruited well but that shows the board and the management are in harmony.
Btw that cup final line up was an expensively assembled team who reached a European Cup final the season before. Also the Argument is not that Arteta is not a good coach. He clearly is. It was whether he has done more at Arsenal than Poch did at Spurs. If he doesn’t win the PL this season I don’t think that argument necessarily stands up.
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I wasn't referring to specifically you regarding making excuses for Poch. This is De Zebris first season, would be harsh to question why he hasn't won anything with Brighton
Anyway, I have no arguments with you regarding the job Poch did - Arteta has achieved more by ultimately winning something in my eyes but you disagree and I get your POV and it's certainly fair enough....
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
This part is, in agreement with this statement, my biggest bug with Spurs and the perceptions about "prioritising" and failure. And this idea you can also prioritise the cup.
Its knock out football, the idea you can focus on it at the expense of the bread and butter of the league to win it is a plan to fail in the longer run. One bad game in the cup and you are out, so called focus on the league and we have had 12, not that simple....
I think we would sperate the realists from the confused hypocrites who claim "anything for a cup win" when you are 2/3 years out the CL, having a knock on to your money and not winning a trophy you supposedly prioritised. Slight segway but Its like the fans who claim Brighton and Brentford are better run (they are fantastically run BTW). But its fanciful that those fans who also moan about everything would take Ethan Pinnock from Dulwich Hamlet as a player as a design to a bigger plan and give him a fair go without calling him cheap within the first year
Anyway I digress...
We played a much better side against Sheffield United who ironically played their second string and we got dinged out, excuses made for the manager was some pathetic idea that Levy Potter had magically ingrained the failure on the players to lose because of CL football....laughable really
The same when I read we should purposely play in the ECL to win a trophy, like is a guarentee...this time next year Rodders....
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Bedfordspurs
Les Bennett
We need a manager who can frost my keep the things simple that I believe have confused the players
Footballers want simple direction, motivation and drive
Get everyone playing to their maximum and you will be better
I think we have suffered with system managers crippling players by making them over think things that they can’t do well enough anyway
if you get very very good players playing to their own level you should be pretty fans good. People think we have poor players, but we have imo better players who have played poorly for many reasons
Getting back to basics, keeping the team motivated and fresh though rotation and substitutes, and motivating them will go a long way. Confidence in football is worth 10% imo
Footballers want simple direction, motivation and drive
Get everyone playing to their maximum and you will be better
I think we have suffered with system managers crippling players by making them over think things that they can’t do well enough anyway
if you get very very good players playing to their own level you should be pretty fans good. People think we have poor players, but we have imo better players who have played poorly for many reasons
Getting back to basics, keeping the team motivated and fresh though rotation and substitutes, and motivating them will go a long way. Confidence in football is worth 10% imo
Gazza
Frederic Kanoute
Who are these players that have played poorly? Playing poorly consistently with a weak mentality is surely a sign of not being good enough?
Our players and starting XI are in no way competitive with the likes of the to teams in the league. We have one player that is elite that has performed consistently ...
Bedfordspurs
Les Bennett
Every player this season apart from Kane and Skipp
Every single player has had really really poor games. Some have had more than others
That doesn’t make them poor players
Some may never recover, but most will
Some will leave and some will stick it out hoping…
And I’ll use two World Cup winners as examples
Romero had a poor first half of the season protecting himself for the World Cup and at best an average post cup level
Hugo has been on a downward spin for some time but this year it crossed the line of no return
These are high class players
If 2 or 3 of these performed at their optimum level it may well have dragged us up to a higher position
Gazza
Frederic Kanoute
Disjointed, inconsistent, weak mentally ... none of which make good reading for a solid team
Bedfordspurs
Les Bennett
Nope
And when I look up the table I see united and pool in much the same way
It’s what we do next that matters of course to fix it
Arsenal were just like this last season and have improved no end
Gazza
Frederic Kanoute
I dont agree, Liverpool have had a dip in form and are now regaining their form under a manager that knows how to get it done having won titles.
Manchester United have had their first season under a manager that has won a trophy in his first season and building a very good team there.
Arsenal had young players and invested widely to balance the team to kick on. We have no amazing young hungry players nor the balance in the squad.
If arsenal invest again in the summer they will pretty much be balanced and ready to go again.