New New Manager Poll (The Lets Get It Right This Time Edition)

[Gutter Boy]

Apparently we have been in talks with Nagelsmann for at least a few days now

I don't think that can happen. He's still technically/strangely employed by Bayern - i.e. they've not paid out his contract/are still giving him a salary. We'd need to negotiate his release with them first, before we'd be allowed to talk to the manager. Much like signing a player.

 

[Dicko]

I don't think that can happen. He's still technically/strangely employed by Bayern - i.e. they've not paid out his contract/are still giving him a salary. We'd need to negotiate his release with them first, before we'd be allowed to talk to the manager. Much like signing a player.

I suppose we informally know what it would take (ball park figure) to get him out of his contract. Can still unofficially have some dialogue with Nagelsmann via his intermediary etc.

Who know though. I'm pretty sure he'll reject us and we'll move on to the next name soon either way.

 

[AdamB]

I don't think that can happen. He's still technically/strangely employed by Bayern - i.e. they've not paid out his contract/are still giving him a salary. We'd need to negotiate his release with them first, before we'd be allowed to talk to the manager. Much like signing a player.

No reason you can't speak to him. No different to the corporate world - I might have an employment contract with my company but if I want to leave I can speak with another company

 

[alekaras]

Start at 15:30 mark.

Some interesting points here regarding the football structure Levy has put/is putting in place, the manager search, the process, etc. For those who think we're sitting on our hands.

 

[DubSpur]

I don't think that can happen. He's still technically/strangely employed by Bayern - i.e. they've not paid out his contract/are still giving him a salary. We'd need to negotiate his release with them first, before we'd be allowed to talk to the manager. Much like signing a player.

And much like with signing a player they get talked to. I doubt Bayern has any prob with him talking to us, they'd be delighted for a club to come to an agreement with him.

 

[Raziel]

And much like with signing a player they get talked to. I doubt Bayern has any prob with him talking to us, they'd be delighted for a club to come to an agreement with him.

Absolutely, they "owe" him ~£30M and they don't want to be on the hook (hence why they didn't outright fire him)

They will let anyone/everyone talk to him if there is any way to reduce their commitment to him.

It's going to be if they have a realization/understanding that there is no real model where they get no penalty for firing him, it's what's the extent.

 

[AdamB]

Was wondering whether Levy will string out appointing Nagelmann if he is our first choice

Now that things are stabilised with Mason, if we appoint Nagelsmann say at end of May it saves us c.£1m in cost, assuming he comes in on somewhere around his Bayern salary

If JN isn't going to Chelsea, and Real still have a manager, there aren't many other places he'll go in the coming weeks

From my view anyway, more important if getting a DoF appointed

 

[Raziel]

Was wondering whether Levy will string out appointing Nagelmann if he is our first choice

Now that things are stabilised with Mason, if we appoint Nagelsmann say at end of May it saves us c.£1m in cost, assuming he comes in on somewhere around his Bayern salary

If JN isn't going to Chelsea, and Real still have a manager, there aren't many other places he'll go in the coming weeks

From my view anyway, more important if getting a DoF appointed

See the point above, the issue isn't Nagelsmann's salary, it that Bayern will owe him £30M and will try to squeeze whoever his next employer as much as possible to minimize the consequences of their decision to fire him.

 

[Gutter Boy]

And much like with signing a player they get talked to. I doubt Bayern has any prob with him talking to us, they'd be delighted for a club to come to an agreement with him.

Maybe they are hanging on to him to replace Tuchel in a few weeks? Taking the Chelsea game to the next level

 

[Lemonade Money]

Was wondering whether Levy will string out appointing Nagelmann if he is our first choice

Now that things are stabilised with Mason, if we appoint Nagelsmann say at end of May it saves us c.£1m in cost, assuming he comes in on somewhere around his Bayern salary

If JN isn't going to Chelsea, and Real still have a manager, there aren't many other places he'll go in the coming weeks

From my view anyway, more important if getting a DoF appointed

There's a lot going on inside your head.

 

[Yiddo]

Surely Bayern will just be happy to get the guy off of his books? Surely a mutual agreement can be made? Unless the manager is after the cash.

 

[Raziel]

Surely Bayern will just be happy to get the guy off of his books? Surely a mutual agreement can be made? Unless the manager is after the cash.

If your employer treated you like brick, "fired" you when you had lost 3 games all season and were in with a shot of treble, and per contract "owed" you £30M. Refused to actually fire you but punted you out on gardening leave with the explicit intention of fudging your next employer, I'm not sure how open anyone would be to a mutual agreement.

I suspect if we want Nagelsmann it will be a bit of a pain in the ass

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

If your employer treated you like brick, "fired" you when you had lost 3 games all season and were in with a shot of treble, and per contract "owed" you £30M. Refused to actually fire you but punted you out on gardening leave with the explicit intention of fudging your next employer, I'm not sure how open anyone would be to a mutual agreement.

I suspect if we want Nagelsmann it will be a bit of a pain in the ass

Its amazing behaviour from Bayern and not in a good way.

I’m also amazed they can legally do all that whilst having employed someone else to do the job he was fired/put on gardening leave for.

 

[alekaras]

Its amazing behaviour from Bayern and not in a good way.

I’m also amazed they can legally do all that whilst having employed someone else to do the job he was fired/put on gardening leave for.

I don't see any legal issue. They're paying him and have not prevented him from talking to any other team. If he doesn't like the situation, he can just ask for his contract to be terminated. Of course in that case he won't receive the balance, but once he finds new employment, he will get paid by his new employer, so he's not really missing out on any pay.

 

[Raziel]

I don't see any legal issue. They're paying him and have not prevented him from talking to any other team. If he doesn't like the situation, he can just ask for his contract to be terminated. Of course in that case he won't receive the balance, but once he finds new employment, he will get paid by his new employer, so he's not really missing out on any pay.

There potentially can be, this kind of behavior can be seen as effectively forcing the employee to quit and engineering a way that they don't have to meet their contractual obligations. Especially in Germany, it's on the edge at minimum.

 

[alekaras]

Absolutely, they "owe" him ~£30M and they don't want to be on the hook (hence why they didn't outright fire him)

They will let anyone/everyone talk to him if there is any way to reduce their commitment to him.

It's going to be if they have a realization/understanding that there is no real model where they get no penalty for firing him, it's what's the extent.

Actually, they may even make something extra. It's no different than a player trade. Imagine we hadn't loaned out Ndombele, but put him on gardening leave. Then a team comes and says they want him. We can let him go for free and get his contract off the books, or we can charge a transfer fee. In Bayern's case, they will likely charge a "transfer fee" to at least recoup any salary they paid him while he was on gardening leave. JN being a high profile coach, they could charge more, but it's not going to be any ridiculous amount, unless there is a bidding war for his services. This is unlikely, as the only other potential candidate would be PSG. And even then a bidding war is not likely because JN will not be at the mercy of who the highest bidder is. He will choose the team. So it' really all hinges on coming to terms with JN and then the Bayern negotiation should be a formality. At most we may pay a few million.

Some people may say that Bayern paid RB Leipzig 25 million to pry him away, so why would it be any cheaper for us, but that was a different situation altogether. He had a contract and was the manager RB Leipzig wanted to keep, so there had to be some significant financial compensation to let him leave. In the current situation he's a manager that Bayern don't want. So their negotiating power is pretty much nil. Our approach, especially if there is no other team he would want to join, would likely be "here's 5 million and cut him loose. Else you can continue to pay his salary."

Again, what is important here is to sell JN on the club and agree a salary. Once that is done, everything else will be sorted fairly quickly.

 

[alekaras]

There potentially can be, this kind of behavior can be seen as effectively forcing the employee to quit and engineering a way that they don't have to meet their contractual obligations. Especially in Germany, it's on the edge at minimum.

It would be an issue, if they prevented him from taking up employment with a new club until his contract runs out. It would also be an issue if they asked for an exorbitant fee from interested clubs, essentially indirectly preventing him from joining another club. But the former doesn't seem to be the case and I doubt the fee would be anything crazy, as I'm sure they want him off their books as soon as possible.

 

[Raziel]

It would be an issue, if they prevented him from taking up employment with a new club until his contract runs out. It would also be an issue if they asked for an exorbitant fee from interested clubs, essentially indirectly preventing him from joining another club. But the former doesn't seem to be the case and I doubt the fee would be anything crazy, as I'm sure they want him off their books as soon as possible.

It's a little more complicated, Nagelsmann could argue

- There is no (defendable?) reason for his dismissal in the first place, so he would absolutely be owed his contract value
- Publicly he's been painted as fired, his role is absolutely diminished (to nothing), effectively they are doing everything but stopping paying him
- Him being out of "doing" could be seen as long term damaging to his career if he just sat it out

You can argue that "humiliation", cutting of job duties and damaging long term prospects, compounded by if they expecting his next employer to cover their contract puts them a bad legal position. And take it from me, German worker laws are very different from US/UK.

Nagelsmann could argue he's owed his full contract value and still be able to get income from his next employer.

 

[GGyid]

What was the real reason JN was sacked? Has it come out?

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

What was the real reason JN was sacked? Has it come out?

Yes he fell out with Neuer when he replaced the goalkeeping coach. Neuer then stormed off on unauthorised leave during the season and went skiing where he broke his leg.

The other old fogie in the squad Muller then backed Neuer’s behaviour and together with the eccentric Oliver Kahn (who long pined for Tuchel) they got Nagelsmann sacked at the bemusement of the rest of the squad.

Since that nonsensical decision chaos has ensued at Bayern who’s season has duly collapsed in comical fashion.