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New England manager = Roy Hodgson

Can we just come to the conclusion that my word is final and Harry MUST stay

Lock thread. Bunch of pansies.
 
billyiddo said:
incredibly insulting to a lot of posters who have articulated their points against Harry well -

the main thing in this whole Harry/anti Harry debate seems to me that there are several posters on the "pro Harry" side who refuse to listen to any of the constructive arguments from the "anti Harry" side and bunch them all in as a bunch of idiots who have no argument to make, rather than listening to the good points people make they choose to focus all their attention on the odd poster who levels a personal insult on him - and then tar everyone with the same brush.
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I don't agree with that. Even the pro Harry people (Moonlight Knight, Paxton, Me, DHSF to name a few) have admitted that Redknapp has made some colassal fudge ups since January. I'll mention them again just for clarity:

Getting rid of Corluka
Negative tactics against the top teams
Negative tactics in away games
Saying he wanted Chelsea to win against Barca
Insisting that we "battered" teams like QPR and Everton when we clearly didn't
Not taking responsibility for the team's poor form
Taking zero responsibilty for the team's shocking output when it comes to set pieces

Raziel is correct. There are too many posters that let their sheer hatred of Redknapp get in the way of rational thinking. Every thing Redknapp says makes him a ****, even on the rare occasions when he has made sense since January. They let their dislike of his personality get in the way. Some posters raise concerns rightfully without belittling him.

I've started to wonder if he's the right man for the job too, but I think he deserves one more season with some proper money. If it doesn't work out, then we get someone else in and move on.
 
billyiddo said:
incredibly insulting to a lot of posters who have articulated their points against Harry well -

the main thing in this whole Harry/anti Harry debate seems to me that there are several posters on the "pro Harry" side who refuse to listen to any of the constructive arguments from the "anti Harry" side and bunch them all in as a bunch of idiots who have no argument to make, rather than listening to the good points people make they choose to focus all their attention on the odd poster who levels a personal insult on him - and then tar everyone with the same brush.
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I can deal with a debate on this level. Thank you Billy!

can you list all of the factual and non speculative reasons for dumping Harry?

ie you can't say "because he's a tax cheat" but you could say - "Its my belief that he tarnished the reputation of the club because of the allegations against him for tax evasion" (for example)

although - in this instance I would have to say that it would be almost impossible to prove that, beyond the fact that I would have to agree that you believed it to be true. (without wishing to put words in your mouth)

Then what the pro side can do is to list all of the things that we believe he has done, that are positive and beneficial, and we can see who looks to have the most credible set of arguments.

how does that sound?
 
mick cooper said:
edit - one final point. I am passionate on what I believe support to be.

A lot of people on here are happy to make the most derogatory comments about the club I support, and it tinkles me off beyond belief. When people make inflammatory comments of that nature, on a Spurs site I wonder why its not treated as WUM activity, but it seems that its one of the rules not to questions someones allegiance when they do it (see my points tally.)
.
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Amen

Funny how I never hear such vitriolic or childish abuse at the games (I've been to 27 games this season)

Internet Warriors. Pathetic
 
Bit harsh really with misleading stats. Not taking into account the difference in budgets of spurs and West brom. In fact Hodgson has won 51% of all his games in Europe as opposed to Harry's 42%. Also he has a greater international experience having managed inter milan and got Switzerland to number 3 in the world!
- Rob, Poole, 30/4/2012 2:00

Hodgson's record reads - 2 league titles, 2 UEFA Cup finals, a few cups. And that;s just for honours for clubs. He took Switzerland to a World CUp, he almost took Finland to their first ever tournament. Redknapp's record reads - managed almost his entire career in one country, where he has won 1 trophy via fluke in 30 years of management. His record also shows that he has spent his entire career wheeling and dealing, being embarrassed in Europe due to his distinct lack of knowledge with regards to tactics. League cup finalist? Big whoop, they beat Burnley in the semi-final. Did you miss when Hodgson's Fulham made Juventus look like Notts County? Did you miss when Harry Redknapp was managing in the San Siro and they went 4-0 down by half-time? Did you see the numerous times a Redknapp team has been walloped despite being 2 goals in front? Did you see when Redknapp took a team to a European final? I never saw that last one!
- Keith, Isle of Man, 30/4/2012 2:59

Well how about getting behind him and supporting an English manager instead of writing blatantly biased articles against him. His record isn't average at all, he has more experience that Redknapp and has managed nations before. In fact to try and twist the facts to represent it the other way round is distasteful at best. Redknapp has made up his CV from clubs that spend heavily for him, he has no tactic nous, what will he do when he can't buy a new centre half? Hodgson is a good choice and most of the people I have spoken to agree so I don't think EVERYONE wants Harry, exaggeration slightly?
- illuminatiTheory, Ipswich, England, 30/4/2012 2:34

Martin your comparison between the two protagonists for the England job is far from accurate or even fair. As a journalist you should tell the whole story. Not leaving out a whole wealth of information leaving your views totally biased. Roy Hodgson could NEVER be said to be 'Mr Ordinary'. He has managed international teams before Switzerland and Finland...he has managed teams on the continent...he speaks 5 languages...Hardly Mr. AVERAGE!! Harry has no international experience...how can you compare WBA with a club like Spurs they are as different as Chalk and Cheese. I must admit until now l was going along with the crowd for Harry but on looking at Roy's credentials l would give him the job. The only blot on his CV is his time at Liverpool..you could say an even bigger Blot on Kenny Dalgleish's record...and how much did HE spend for his BLOT!. Be fair take a look at Roy's credentials...and then maybe think again.
- Joseph, Philippines, 30/4/2012 3:34

i know you and your hack mates wanted redknapp but where did you get information regarding what the rest of us want , the only people whipping up harry hysteria is you and your buddies well you can all get together on sunday morning on sky an cry in your cornflakes , unlike journalists and some managers roy is honest ,reliable experienced and a great manager good luck roy you deserve it
- michael armstrong, walsall england, 30/4/2012 0:50

Martin Samuel...Hang your head in shame. I am a Liverpool fan so you might think i'd be against Hodgson. But he has a knack for getting the best out of average, slightly overrated players and that is what makes up the England squad. Harry is effective only when he has a load of cash to splash. I think, for once, the FA have got this spot on.
- Nick, Liverpool, 30/4/2012 9:50

Haha Martin Samuel didn't get his man. Diddums.
- Tony, London, 30/4/2012 10:08

Also, I quote from another source; If you look at his CV and what he achieved at clubs relative to where they were when he joined, it is on the whole outstanding: Successes: 1976 Halmstad - relegation contenders to League winners 1976 and 1979 1985 Malmo - 5 league titles 1990 Neuchatel Xamax - beat Celtic and Real Madrid in Europe with a team that has only twice won the Swiss league. 1992 Switzerland - qualified for 1994 World Cup losing only 1 game in a qualification group containing Italy and Portugal. Qualified for Euro 96 and got Switzerland to 3rd in the World. 1995 Inter Milan - Got a bad Inter team to 3rd and the UEFA Cup Final 2000 Copenhagen - Took a team from 7th to Champions 2004 Viking - Relegation threatened to 5th and UEFA Cup, beating Monaco. 2006 Finland - Best ever qualification performance. 2007 Fulham - Relegation certainties to UEFA Cup Semi.
- James Taylor, Glasgow, 30/4/2012 1:42

WhAt a load of nonsense by Mr Samuel. The league table in itself isn't a reflection of who the best manager is. Harry has spent a small fortune at spurs and is tactically inept.
- Al, Edinburgh, 30/4/2012 8:46

Redknapp comes with so much baggage he should be sponsored by Louis Vuitton.
- Chris, London, 30/4/2012 10:27

"The people" didn`t want harry, most fans outside london don`t rate the guy. Now you want to destroy another perfectly good england manager before he has even started. Well done mate.
- dave, midlands, 30/4/2012 10:51

Martin Samuel hang your head. Typical English football journalist who can't wait to get after the England manager, only this time he hasn't even got the job yet!
- Rich, Wigton, Cumbria, 30/4/2012 10:37

let's get one thing straight rednapp was NEVER the fans choice ,he was his buddies i the media's choice. keeping crying martin cant fool us. clown.
- glen, surrey, 30/4/2012 15:22

Media not got the man THEY wanted so will now try to ridicule Hodgson and mock him at every opportunity. Pathetic. Hodgson's little finger possesses more football knowledge than the author of this article.
- T.Carter, London, 30/4/2012 10:31

Martin Samuel-sports journalist of the year? Are you having a larf?
- Dave, Stockport, 30/4/2012 16:03

I love how you list Carling Cup finalists as an achievement yet conveniently forget to mention Fulham's Europa League final appearance which was accomplished on fraction of the budget Spurs had. The only way this article could be more subjective is if Harry had written it himself, although if he struggles with team sheets a whole article might be beyond him.
- Dan, Hereford, 30/4/2012 16:17

what the hell is martin samuel moaning about ,harry maybe be his pal but harry did one thing that not many manager's could do if they try.manage to get a brilliant spurs squad drom going for the league to not even looking like getting into europe.he maybe your pal martin but the facts dont lie. he doesnt deserve it .
- wayne, stockport, 30/4/2012 16:27

A petulant and rambling article from a journalist who has thrown his toys out of the pram,his own argument falls down when he lists the Spurs managers achievements-league cup finalist 2009 champions league qualifier2010,cannot believe he even printed that!
- chris, fife, 30/4/2012 12:56

This is an apalling angle to choose in order to criticize Hodgson before his England jacket has even been fitted. WBA are the perrenial yo-yo club and Hodgson has given them 15 months of mid-table security. There's only so much you can do with a team like WBA! When Harry was in charge of Portsomouth, West Ham & Southampton, do you think he had better than average stats? Did he perform miracles, like go on a 25 game European tour all the way to the Europa Cup final? Of course not! He left each team in a mess. If we compare CVS: Hodgson: 10 league titles in Scandinavia, 2 international jobs, includuing getting the Swiss to No. 3 in the world. Also managed huge clubs such as Inter Milan and Liverpool. Redknapp: 1 FA Cup Unfortunately the media are eating humble pie and will make this an impossible job for Hodgson. Shame on them, particularly Mr Samuel who I used to respect before this article
- Mark, London, 30/4/2012 12:34

apart from the carling cup and the FA cup and steering tottenham to one season what else has redknapp achieved.. i agree he is a good manager but to call roy hodgson ordinary compared to redknapp makes redknapp look like he's SAF or mourinho's class..its the same old media trying to fan fires cuz their darling didnt get the job..and i'm a liverpool fan and i'm not complaining...
- pratman, somewhere,anywhere, 30/4/2012 10:17

Martin, you are wrong. It's the media who appear to be condemning Roy before a ball is kicked, not fans. I usually enjoy reading your articles but this seems like the bitter rant of a man who picked the wrong horse. Harry's record is nothing special and there are no outstanding candidates for the job this time round. Such a shame the press can't see past Harry's cheeky ****ney soundbites.
- Mark, London, 30/4/2012 11:54

Got the Swiss to the top 3 in the world rankings. Managed Inter Milan twice. Got an average Fulham team to the brink of winning Europa League. Got a misfiring West Brom side to 10th. Has more wins in the last 6 moinths than 'Arry. You can do a lot with statistics Martin. Or is it more your mate didn't get the job and that you had no clue all the way and now look a little foolish?


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Is-England-job-Mr-Average.html#ixzz1tZ24kVXj
 
southstand1882 said:
Amen

Funny how I never hear such vitriolic or childish abuse at the games (I've been to 27 games this season)

Internet Warriors. Pathetic
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Why would you go to a match and hurl abuse at the manager?

I sing my heart out for the team.

But as you do at matches I air my views loudly to those around me if it comes up.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don't agree with that. Even the pro Harry people (Moonlight Knight, Paxton, Me, DHSF to name a few) have admitted that Redknapp has made some colassal fudge ups since January. I'll mention them again just for clarity:

Getting rid of Corluka
Negative tactics against the top teams
Negative tactics in away games
Saying he wanted Chelsea to win against Barca
Insisting that we "battered" teams like QPR and Everton when we clearly didn't
Not taking responsibility for the team's poor form
Taking zero responsibilty for the team's shocking output when it comes to set pieces

Raziel is correct. There are too many posters that let their sheer hatred of Redknapp get in the way of rational thinking. Every thing Redknapp says makes him a ****, even on the rare occasions when he has made sense since January. They let their dislike of his personality get in the way. Some posters raise concerns rightfully without belittling him.

I've started to wonder if he's the right man for the job too, but I think he deserves one more season with some proper money. If it doesn't work out, then we get someone else in and move on.
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I have to say I'm gutted that I din't get to be in your team, I feel like the fat boy left over when the teams have been picked.
but having said that............

Getting rid of Corluka - why, when have we missed him? Walker has loads of flaws, but at least he can get up and down the pitch more often than a south stand steward.

Negative tactics against the top teams - First 2 games aside, ok and possibly liverpool away, he has put out agressive sides, tempered with a commonsense approach to playing top teams - look what happened to Saudi Sportswashing Machine when they tried to be expansive at WHL, with 2 of their best players missing.

Negative tactics in away games- really? Loook at the stats for possession and territory in our away games. I hate stat attacks but my memory wont support my argument, so look on the BBC website.
Saying he wanted Chelsea to win against Barca - Why - in all honesty? What difference does it make what he thought about that game?
Insisting that we "battered" teams like QPR and Everton when we clearly didn't - oh yes we fudging did. errrm, apart from the goals bit. Both of them looked like away teams, on their own grounds. I would have been ashamed to see Spurs surrender control of games in that manner - at WHL.
Not taking responsibility for the team's poor form - What manager have you ever seen - in print or on TV say - "fudge, its all my fault, I've made a real gonads of this haven't I? Why should he be any different? That said, he could have been more conciliatory, and made statements about working on the problems. I am at a disadvantage as I dont see all the press like you do.
Taking zero responsibilty for the team's shocking output when it comes to set pieces - Would you like him to come on and take them?


I think this is why I didn't get picked, isn't it?
 
Bloody hell Mick......you've been slagging Walker big time and you now drop that just to try and score a point??

Please
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don't agree with that. Even the pro Harry people (Moonlight Knight, Paxton, Me, DHSF to name a few) have admitted that Redknapp has made some colassal fudge ups since January. I'll mention them again just for clarity:

Getting rid of Corluka
Negative tactics against the top teams
Negative tactics in away games
Saying he wanted Chelsea to win against Barca
Insisting that we "battered" teams like QPR and Everton when we clearly didn't
Not taking responsibility for the team's poor form
Taking zero responsibilty for the team's shocking output when it comes to set pieces

Raziel is correct. There are too many posters that let their sheer hatred of Redknapp get in the way of rational thinking. Every thing Redknapp says makes him a ****, even on the rare occasions when he has made sense since January. They let their dislike of his personality get in the way. Some posters raise concerns rightfully without belittling him.

I've started to wonder if he's the right man for the job too, but I think he deserves one more season with some proper money. If it doesn't work out, then we get someone else in and move on.
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1. Corluka is fudging dogbrick mate; getting rid made us STRONGER

2 & 3: And yet our possession stats suggest we control games? Hmmmmm!

4. So what - he can say what he likes; hardly gonna make a difference is it??

5. We did, as Mick says - we just didn't score. brick happens.

6. Well no-one gave him any credit for the teams good form either, so I don't blame him.

5. For fudge sake, how's that HIS responsibility? It's the fudging players who take the set-pieces. Jesus christ ](*,)
 
mick cooper said:
I can deal with a debate on this level. Thank you Billy!

can you list all of the factual and non speculative reasons for dumping Harry?

ie you can't say "because he's a tax cheat" but you could say - "Its my belief that he tarnished the reputation of the club because of the allegations against him for tax evasion" (for example)

although - in this instance I would have to say that it would be almost impossible to prove that, beyond the fact that I would have to agree that you believed it to be true. (without wishing to put words in your mouth)

Then what the pro side can do is to list all of the things that we believe he has done, that are positive and beneficial, and we can see who looks to have the most credible set of arguments.

how does that sound?
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Mick, ive generally tried to avoid The Great Harry Debate lately after finding myself running round in circles last season repeating my opinions over and over only to find the person i was 'debating' with bringing up things i wasn't even saying and then proceeding to argue against them (as if i was making those points), as well as the reasons i put forward earlier - arguing this side of the debate usually falls on deaf ears with people making assumptions about you and your 'agenda' without actually reading what you write - so im not overly interested in going through all the reasons i have to personally not like Harry. Ive been through them with you before, iirc, and we sort of hit a wall in that you didn't agree with making a judgment on someone's character via what we have seen of them through the media over their careers - where im perfectly happy to make conclusions based on what i see in that respect

i don't want us to replace Harry because i don't like him, i want us to replace him because i think he has taken us as far as he can - based on the similarities between this season and last (how we fell apart towards the end of the season) there's a case to be made he hasn't learned from his mistakes - as well as several other things i (and mostly others) have posted on this board in the past few weeks, which in all honesty i don't have the desire to go over at this moment.
 
Leeds Spur said:
Why would you go to a match and hurl abuse at the manager?

I sing my heart out for the team.

But as you do at matches I air my views loudly to those around me if it comes up.
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Somebody with the courage of their convictions would

Sad internet warriors (who fear a battering) would not
 
billyiddo said:
Mick, ive generally tried to avoid The Great Harry Debate lately after finding myself running round in circles last season repeating my opinions over and over only to find the person i was 'debating' with bringing up things i wasn't even saying and then proceeding to argue against them (as if i was making those points), as well as the reasons i put forward earlier - arguing this side of the debate usually falls on deaf ears with people making assumptions about you and your 'agenda' without actually reading what you write - so im not overly interested in going through all the reasons i have to personally not like Harry. Ive been through them with you before, iirc, and we sort of hit a wall in that you didn't agree with making a judgment on someone's character via what we have seen of them through the media over their careers - where im perfectly happy to make conclusions based on what i see in that respect

i don't want us to replace Harry because i don't like him, i want us to replace him because i think he has taken us as far as he can - based on the similarities between this season and last (how we fell apart towards the end of the season) there's a case to be made he hasn't learned from his mistakes - as well as several other things i (and mostly others) have posted on this board in the past few weeks, which in all honesty i don't have the desire to go over at this moment.
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That is why I asked you to put up factual arguments and avoid personal feelings, not just you - but all of the people on your side.

Imagine we are all in the pub. Spurs supporters - one and all, with nothing but Tottenhams success as a focal point.

No angst, no anguish and no bad feeling. Just a straight shoot out of pro and con, factual arguments, without emotion or prejudice.

I'm not trying to score points, and winning this argument (if its at all possible) is meaningless anyway, just a bit of fun between two committed sets of fellow spurs fans, because thats what we are.
Right?
 
southstand1882 said:
Somebody with the courage of their convictions would

Sad internet warriors (who fear a battering) would not
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Surely its because you go to a game to offer support.
You come on here to talk about the club and debate issues surrounding the club.

Some people can't tell the difference between the two forums. Some people think this a forum for showing support to the club (as if the players, management or owners were reading or some deluded bs?). Some people think this is a forum for showing how that they're the bestest spurs fan in the world, defending Spurs from all criticism in a Liverpool cultist type of way.

Back to Redknapp. The position of Tottenham Manager doesn't make him a GHod like figure who shouldn't be criticised. He's just a man doing a job. Hopefully he'll get on with it, and stop being distracted by other jobs.
 
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Leeds Spur said:
Bloody hell Mick......you've been slagging Walker big time and you now drop that just to try and score a point??

Please
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flimflam
I said he was pants in the game against stoke and Blackburn, the last game because he had no-one to play against and still tooled up

I did not say he was useless and neither did I say Corluka is a better all round player.

Having said that, he's a better defender, but Walkers game isn't based on his superlative defending

If we had kept Corluka he would have not played and probably hardly made the bench. Loaning him out was eminently sensible
 
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