Moussa Sissoko

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think we did buy him as an attacking player and it didn’t work, so we retooled him as a deeper lying midfielder and it does work. But for some reason, the fact that Sissoko talked up Arsenal before he joined, that a lot of people didn’t want to spend the money on him when he did join, and a few really bad early games so offended so many Spurs fans that they absolutely cannot see the woods from the trees anymore.

You should be a politician, do you work in PR at all?

I think we did buy him as an attacking player and it didn’t work [Because he was terrible], so we retooled him as a deeper lying midfielder and it does work [It doesnt "work", its at best passable and worst laughable]. But for some reason, the fact that Sissoko talked up Arsenal before he joined [I genuinely do not remember that, it certainly doesnt inform my opinion], that a lot of people didn’t want to spend the money on him when he did join [again, not my problem. He is undoubtedly a waste of money, but I trust Levy with the £ so it doesnt bother me], and a few really bad early games [HALF A SEASON of brick, and then he improved to sometimes brick but mostly "meh", a few? Ha!] so offended so many Spurs fans that they absolutely cannot see the woods from the trees anymore.

The idea that people have just been blinded by propaganda is hilarious. Cant see the woods for the trees? Come on! People that appreciate workhorses, defensive players, understated players are all looking at him and calling him for what he is. Not good enough. Its not a bandwagon, its not some deeper insight that cannot be found, it really is that simple.

The defenders of him whine "oh nobody else gets as much stick..." - but they do. Ill accept Sissoko isnt always the worst performer. Ill even be generous - lets say he has never been the worst performer (obviously not true) - he is still always at the bottom end of the scale.

This last game? Sissoko, Dembele, Wanyama all getting criticism. SCBC? Sissoko, Alli and Son. It goes on - the common factor in worst performers, if not actual worst, is him. So yes, he is regularly called up. Because he is regularly at that level. That doesnt excuse anyone else, just read the board - there is a growing theme against Alli at the moment.

It is so obvious, the defense of him only makes sense if you are arguing a principle. Which is fine, but its also abstract, and you probably picked the wrong player to use as the champion for it.

You dont like players getting stick? I get that. You think its negative? Yeah, it probably is. You think we should all be supportive and positive and maybe that will help? In the stadium, yeah absolutely.

None of that changes the fact Sissoko is just not good enough, or, in footballing terms - deserving of your efforts.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I firmly believe this is Poch making the best of a deal which did not work out as he thought it could. This is a massive season. Homeless, tight funds about to be unleashed in August, major stars about to get deserved pay hike which will echo through the squad...we cannot just go and “replace” him. It is not that easy. I personally think Poch should be hailed for squeezing what he has from him. Look at where we are WITH him playing and yes, imagine where we can be when the shackles are off and we can buy as we want not as we can. Poch’s biggest problems right now are getting Sissoko performances and timing when he plays Dembele, who clearly cannot play every week.

Why cant we simply replace him? He is fundamentally a poor footballer in this squad. I see no reason why we couldnt have replaced him with relative ease.

The only reasons I think we havent are two fold, 1) we couldnt get rid of him and 2) We didnt anticipate relying on him.

Otherwise, I agree completely. Poch has worked an absolute miracle to have us where we are with him as a mainstay of our midfield. He should get manager of the year just for that.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

You should be a politician, do you work in PR at all?



The idea that people have just been blinded by propaganda is hilarious. Cant see the woods for the trees? Come on! People that appreciate workhorses, defensive players, understated players are all looking at him and calling him for what he is. Not good enough. Its not a bandwagon, its not some deeper insight that cannot be found, it really is that simple.

The defenders of him whine "oh nobody else gets as much stick..." - but they do. Ill accept Sissoko isnt always the worst performer. Ill even be generous - lets say he has never been the worst performer (obviously not true) - he is still always at the bottom end of the scale.

This last game? Sissoko, Dembele, Wanyama all getting criticism. SCBC? Sissoko, Alli and Son. It goes on - the common factor in worst performers, if not actual worst, is him. So yes, he is regularly called up. Because he is regularly at that level. That doesnt excuse anyone else, just read the board - there is a growing theme against Alli at the moment.

It is so obvious, the defense of him only makes sense if you are arguing a principle. Which is fine, but its also abstract, and you probably picked the wrong player to use as the champion for it.

You dont like players getting stick? I get that. You think its negative? Yeah, it probably is. You think we should all be supportive and positive and maybe that will help? In the stadium, yeah absolutely.

None of that changes the fact Sissoko is just not good enough, or, in footballing terms - deserving of your efforts.

You and I will keep coming back to the point that you don’t think he is doing a good enough job as a deeper midfielder where as I do. There really isn’t too much we can discuss beyond that.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

But I should say, it’s blatantly obvious no one gets anywhere near the same level of undeserved abuse. And while factors such as money, Arsenal praise in the past etc may not have impacted you, I’m prettt sure they will have coloured the opinions of the vast swathe of the fan base.

Sissoko just does not have good PR. But someone like Soldado, who cost a lot of money, was unfortunately terrible for us and isn’t here anymore because Poch sold him the first chance he got, is still thought of fondly. The stadium sung his song at every game. And Soldado will still tag his social media posts with COYS. Maybe this doesn’t affect you, but it’s preftt undeniable that Soldado got a far easier ride than Sissoko can ever hope of getting.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

And I should also say, I thought it was a great thing that we sung like we did for Soldado. He needed confidence, he had some tough personal issues, and he was clearly appreciative. Extra suppprt at best helps him
through a tough time and has no negative consequences, because he is going to work hard regardless and isn’t going to be complacent.

But clearly the Spurs hive mind decided Soldado deserved it. Sissoko just doesnt.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Why cant we simply replace him? He is fundamentally a poor footballer in this squad. I see no reason why we couldnt have replaced him with relative ease.

The only reasons I think we havent are two fold, 1) we couldnt get rid of him and 2) We didnt anticipate relying on him.

Otherwise, I agree completely. Poch has worked an absolute miracle to have us where we are with him as a mainstay of our midfield. He should get manager of the year just for that.

Or three (and I know this is really outlandish but just go with it....) Pochettino doesn’t have the same unconscious bias as you do, thinks Sissoko is doing a reasonable job and that it might be quite hard to replace him?

 

[Finney Is Back]

But I should say, it’s blatantly obvious no one gets anywhere near the same level of undeserved abuse. And while factors such as money, Arsenal praise in the past etc may not have impacted you, I’m prettt sure they will have coloured the opinions of the vast swathe of the fan base.

Sissoko just does not have good PR. But someone like Soldado, who cost a lot of money, was unfortunately terrible for us and isn’t here anymore because Poch sold him the first chance he got, is still thought of fondly. The stadium sung his song at every game. And Soldado will still tag his social media posts with COYS. Maybe this doesn’t affect you, but it’s preftt undeniable that Soldado got a far easier ride than Sissoko can ever hope of getting.

Something I could never get with soldado was that he was truly useless yet there were many on here that seemed to like him?

 

[Robspur12]

people say that Sissoko is doing the job Poch asks of him. Well does he, really? He was bought as AM, but everybody agrees now that his role is DM... That is some statement in itself. Poch is getting stick for fielding Sissoko, and rightly so. One answer saves Poch and it is injuries.

PS!
United knew how to cut their losses with Bebe (and other players). I wish Levy picked up something. The transfer window is still open. we can only hope. Upgrade please!

Not sure about the point you are trying to make here. Dier was bought as a central defender, now he is a defensive midfielder, Dembele was an attacking midfielder now he is defensive midfielder. A player performs in the role that the manager asks him to, and that may be different to his original role.

With respect, Poch is getting stick from amateurs who would most likely struggle to put together a successful team so I am not sure who or what he needs or be saved from? He believes Sissoko has something to offer therefore I defer to his better judgement whatever my thoughts are on Sissoko.

I am still not sure why many posters are so exercised by Sissoko. Our current problems have nothing to do with him unless you can convince me that he is the reason Alli and Dembele have suffered dips in form this season, that he is causing Dier to have a brain fart almost every time he plays in defence, that he is the reason, Lamela, Wanyama and Rose have all looked rusty since coming back from long term injury. Sissoko has played a part in every game this season. He is going no where in January, and why should he? Because the lynch mob can’t stand him?

 

[harr1984]

I think we did buy him as an attacking player and it didn’t work, so we retooled him as a deeper lying midfielder and it does work. But for some reason, the fact that Sissoko talked up Arsenal before he joined, that a lot of people didn’t want to spend the money on him when he did join, and a few really bad early games so offended so many Spurs fans that they absolutely cannot see the woods from the trees anymore. If he was a Spurs fan, we paid £10M for him and if he started out playing in the deeper midfield role, he would get nowhere near the same level of abuse. And when we say that objectively he doesn’t deserve the abuse for his performances this year, I don’t see how anyone can justifiably say he wouldn’t be treated completely differently if those factors happened. And I don’t see one single argument as to why they should matter since none of them are his fault, and he is our player.

You are absolutely right. Poch is one of the most ruthless managers we have had. Mediocre players don’t get second chances if they aren’t performing and have nothing to offer. He is in a process of raising standards at this club, about building a culture of performance and not allowing sub par anything to be tolerated. This whole idea that we are forced to play Sissoko and that there is absolutely no other option but to play him in almost every game this season is laughable. We could have loaned him out even if we couldn’t sell him. Or we could just banish him to the reserves if we didn’t want him near the team so that he is forced to seek regular football in a World Cup year even if he has to risk dropping his wages. Not only did we welcome him staying, but we’ve used him in every game including some massive wins and performances.

I was genuinely asking because I don’t remember him playing as AM much even early on in his career here but obviously just mind playing tricks on me. I agree with what you say on the subject....

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Something I could never get with soldado was that he was truly useless yet there were many on here that seemed to like him?

He was seriously bad, probably worse at fulfilling his role at a striker than Sissoko has been in deeper midfield this year and quite easily so. But people just liked him more, the crowd went one way with him because on a general basis, they decided he deserved it. Maybe because he looked so pained every time he missed a shot, and the fans could see he is trying. And he was a glamorous Spanish signing playing up front - no one was really against his purchase.

Sissoko looks a bit moody. And people didn’t want him. There is more at stake for fans trying to show they were right or simply going with the crowd and the myth that was created (TM Poch) rather than looking at him objectively.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I really haven’t backed myself into a corner. In fact I backed myself into a position in an argument that our manager then near enough parroted word for word a couple of days later. I feel quite fine with my riddles.

You mean because the media asked Poch why he was playing Sissoko and Poch didn’t slate him you feel vindicated?

1. Have any managers slated their players openly and it worked out well?

2. Maybe ask the question to yourself why the media asked Poch in the first place?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

You and I will keep coming back to the point that you don’t think he is doing a good enough job as a deeper midfielder where as I do. There really isn’t too much we can discuss beyond that.

That really is it. Clearly I have higher standards for what I think a Spurs player should be at this time. 10-15 years ago, with Sissoko in the side? Id probably be making all the same excuses you are. The team has evolved though, we arent that level of side anymore - and it really shows when Sissoko plays IMO.

Or three (and I know this is really outlandish but just go with it....) Pochettino doesn’t have the same unconscious bias as you do, thinks Sissoko is doing a reasonable job and that it might be quite hard to replace him?

There is no unconscious bias. Thats the thing. Im a very pragmatic person, I basically say what I see and I dont get particularly emotive about any player.

Which is why I am frankly baffled as to why there is such a forceful defense of such a limited player. This is nothing like the old Carrick / Jenas kind of talk, Sissoko isnt close to as able as they were.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

You mean because the media asked Poch why he was playing Sissoko and Poch didn’t slate him you feel vindicated?

1. Have any managers slated their players openly and it worked out well?

2. Maybe ask the question to yourself why the media asked Poch in the first place?

Poch not only didn’t slate him, but tried to go into some quite specific tactical detail (a mistake, because it’s been beyond the comprehension of most of the fans) to explain what his role was. People have either ignored it, wilfully misunderstood it, or tried to twist the words to claim it suited their own point of view, rather than just taking them at face value. He could have said anything else. He could have offered general encouragement. He could have praised him alongside the whole team. The fact that he chose to praise him for the precise tactical role I was claiming he was doing a few pages back means yes, I feel somewhat vindicated.

As for point 2, probably because some journos have noticed fans of unfairly getting on his back. Some of the good ones - like Dan KP - have even tried their best to give Sissoko some positive PR to counter act it. But if you read any of his twitter threads on the subject, it’s full of a bunch of people claiming that Dan has also gone mad, because ‘Sissoko’s brick mate’.

Sissoko won’t win. The mind is made up. It’s only going to be in 10 years, when the next selfless transition player that gives the team balance is getting slated on here, that most people will say ‘how dare you compare this oaf to Sissoko? This guy can’t lace Sissoko’s boots!’ And all will be right with the world...

 

[Nifel]

one possible reason why Alli and co have dropped their standard is they have a freeloader in Sissoko to deal with. The player who stands still watching the team mates play. The player who doesn't provide good crosses. The player who often gives passes that needs rescuing. The player who cannot be trusted for any end product.

Of course the team mates will be affected by having a team mate like that on his side.

Sissoko is a player for a team fighting, hoping for a top half finish, not top 4. He drags the team down to his level.

I don't see anybody else standing still watching his team mates. Even Paulinho did not do that.

When(if!) Sissoko pulls his own weight, the stick will fade away. He did not do it at Saudi Sportswashing Machine when they were relegated. He did not do it when Saudi Sportswashing Machine played in the championship. And he doesn't do it at Tottenham. He did not do it for France during the European Cup. There were absolute no end product during the finals, but people kept praising him anyhow.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

At face value his words state he is only playing because others cant.

So who is it willfully interpreting?

 

[Nifel]

Sissoko won’t win. The mind is made up. It’s only going to be in 10 years, when the next selfless transition player that gives the team balance is getting slated on here, that most people will say ‘how dare you compare this oaf to Sissoko? This guy can’t lace Sissoko’s boots!’ And all will be right with the world...

The kind of boots Sissoko should lace are track and field, not football. He is no footballer, yet he get paid silly money for being one.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

At face value his words state he is only playing because others cant.

So who is it willfully interpreting?

Ok, I know your quite keen on what is a very small part of that quite to have this meaning, so let’s take it.

What is he saying when he says ‘right now’. Because Wanyama is fit and Dier is fit, and Dembele is fit, and Toby is now coming back so Dier is even more free to play midfield. When he’s saying right now, I could just as easily claim he means ‘because we have no one else like him until we sign another Sissoko, because he has been doing so well’ but I won’t do that, because I think the part of the quote was so small.

But here’s the thing, there were two school’s of thought to that quote. You had those saying that Poch meant it, and was trying to offer a tactical explanation of Sissoko’s role in the vein hope that maybe some fans would get off his back. And you had people saying that the quote was only positive because we are trying to pump his value, because of course Poch would respond positively, because he had no other choice.

So let’s say he was just pumping the value...why did he include the words ‘right now’ if he wanted to do that? Because surely that would lessen the intention of talking him up in no uncertain terms? Maybe he really did just mean what he said, that Sissoko is doing an important tactical job (which you just don’t want to accept, which is fine).

Because trying to drop in the point that he’s only playing because of injuries doesn’t exactly tie in with the idea Poch was just being a good salesman in an attempt to get our £30M back, does it?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I subscribe to neither of your schools of thought. So trying to steer the argument to one of your ready made conclusions isnt going to work.

Straight up I think far to much is being read into it.

Id have ignored it were it not for people trying to take it as irrefutable proof of their point of view.

Its PR. Poch says nice and bland things to the press, there is no fuss, no headlines, it works. Thats it, and pretty much all it ever is.

Youve seen it as some kind of vindication, but its really not.

What does he say? Sissoko has been doing a job, an important job, one we've had no one else to do. Thats it, in a nutshell.

The job is important. We need someone fulfilling that role.

Wanyama is not fit. Wanyama is getting back to fitness. Similarly Dembele, who simply isnt right at all. Dier plays virtually every game because we have no choice. Mason hasnt been an option for months. Track our injuries, literally all season Sissoko hasnt had competition for that place.

So he has been our only choice.

If it vindicates anyones point of view, it would be mine for saying he is playing through necessity and not choice.

It might only be one small phrase in the quote, but it is KEY. Without it the whole quote takes a different meaning, the one you want it to. With it? Well, it doesnt quite do the job for you does it? And if he meant the quote as you would prefer, why say that part at all?

 

[glasgowspur]

Wow more pages on this thread than Dele or Toby and wanyama combined.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Wow more pages on this thread than Dele or Toby and wanyama combined.

Maybe it’s because no one is denying those players played brick? Just a thought!