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MEGA RANT time for Levy & Co to go

It's possible to not be in complete agreement with Levy on everything he does without jumping on the 'He's the Devil' band wagon.

'He didn't appoint the manager I wanted'
'He didn't sign that player I wanted'
'He signed that player I really didn't want'
'He keeps dragging things out'
'We overpaid'.
'He sacked this guy too soon'
'He didn't sack that other guy soon enough'

I would say 99% of the complaints are born out of either impatience or just pure ignorance of what running a football club actually requires.

Overall his performance as chairman is somewhere between very good and great. There will always be room for improvement, but getting hung up on minor flaws to the point where you want him gone? Good grief.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I'm not saying we should go for MP, or that the challenges are the same really. Although actually, Cortese has taken then from bottom of League 1 the top 8 in the country. That's a pretty significant step. Have they spent a bit of money? Sure, but not outrageous amounts really. They've also done it playing a style of football admired by pretty much everyone and by using a lot of their academy in a system that allows them to flourish. Cortese has done an excellent job, whether we compare his challenges to ours or not. I'm not trying to make any point other than if someone asks 'can you name another chairman who has done as well as Levy', well yes, there are plenty. I used to be well aboard the 'Levy is the best chairman in the land' train, but it's now clearly nonsense. He's still very good, but he's not a visionary and ahead of the game like someone truly exceptional would be. But I'd take Levy over the Venkys of this world, and also over the Ashelys, the Lerners. We could do a hell of a lot worse and we could also do a little worse. I no longer think Levy is some unbeatable chairman guru though who still sails by some of you without seemingly a jot of questioning on his decision making.
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There are very few visionaries in the world and I think that is an impossibly high benchmark to set anyone.

Levy has made plenty of mistakes, everyone does, but he has us constantly punching above our weight and the difference between us and the clubs above us (Everton apart) is a great big stack of cash.
 
milo said:
I think that AVB would have got as long as he wanted if he had been able to maintain professional relationships.
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This again...

Honestly it really wasn't the point I was making, but I'm on a train and I'm bored so I'll bite.

If you put two people together at the elite end of something, they are both going to believe strongly in their way of doing things. AVB will have exceptional belief in his methods and his ideas, and so will Levy. That's what's gotten them to the top of the game. They don't have petty arguments, but their visions clash. And it is the chairman's responsibility to make the right hire. Strategic hiring is an incredibly important business decision, one of the most important that a company can make. And they need to get it right.

AVB is not a graduate or an intern that is there to learn. He is an elite football coach that was hired to do a job because of his ideas. To 'build better relationships' would be to sacrifice what he believes in, in favour of what Levy wants. And if he was a graduate, that's what needs to be done to build your career. At the top level though, both sides are going to have some strong views so you need to make sure you can work with the people you hire. Levy also has strong views. I don't blame him for that, but I blame him for hiring the wrong man. AVB is an elite coach that could walk into another elite job, he doesn't need to waste time butchering himself to do what Levy wants.
 
milo said:
There are very few visionaries in the world and I think that is an impossibly high benchmark to set anyone.

Levy has made plenty of mistakes, everyone does, but he has us constantly punching above our weight and the difference between us and the clubs above us (Everton apart) is a great big stack of cash.
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What is that visionary comment supposed to mean? It's not a high benchmark, I simply want him to know more than me, and make decisions that work out for the club. Like if everyone is saying it's a terrible idea to sack someone, but having the appointment pay off really well. There's not only 'very few people in the world' that are capable of something like that. Instead Levy makes an appointment, has a good amount of people saying 'that's a good decision' and it blows up because he hired the wrong man.

No one is denying Levy has done well getting to punch at our weight. But is he the man best equipped to take us forward? Is he smarter than his competitors, or is he willing to take the risks to get us there? He needs to be either one of those to do it, and I don't think he is. We will mostly hover around 5th with Levy in charge with a lucky 4th or 3rd thrown in depending on how the clubs above us manage to bugger themselves up in that particular season. But people are saying 'the next step is consistent top 4 finishes' without giving any justification as to why they think Levy is the man to make is take that next step. It's all very well being slow and sustainable but when the clubs ahead manage to pull further and further away it isn't very useful.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
This again...

Honestly it really wasn't the point I was making, but I'm on a train and I'm bored so I'll bite.

If you put two people together at the elite end of something, they are both going to believe strongly in their way of doing things. AVB will have exceptional belief in his methods and his ideas, and so will Levy. That's what's gotten them to the top of the game. They don't have petty arguments, but their visions clash. And it is the chairman's responsibility to make the right hire. Strategic hiring is an incredibly important business decision, one of the most important that a company can make. And they need to get it right.

AVB is not a graduate or an intern that is there to learn. He is an elite football coach that was hired to do a job because of his ideas. To 'build better relationships' would be to sacrifice what he believes in, in favour of what Levy wants. And if he was a graduate, that's what needs to be done to build your career. At the top level though, both sides are going to have some strong views so you need to make sure you can work with the people you hire. Levy also has strong views. I don't blame him for that, but I blame him for hiring the wrong man. AVB is an elite coach that could walk into another elite job, he doesn't need to waste time butchering himself to do what Levy wants.
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A key skill in any job is to build successful working relationships. You can be the best around but if you are a pain in the **** to work with and constantly fall our with your boss you won't last long. Besides, it was not just Levy that AVB fell out with. He also had spats with Baldini, Freund and the medical team this season.

I don't really understand why you won't acknowledge that this was a problem for AVB at Spurs and was a failing of his. It feels like you ignore or explain away anything that does not support your views.
 
There's so much that has to come together for us to consistently start to trouble the clubs that are richer than us. Simply finding that needle in the haystack manager or giving him all the patience and freedom in the world isn't going to make much of a difference. As long as we're able to reinvest money back into our squad to improve and avoid a ManUtd/Moyes kind of appointment Levy is doing well.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Congrats on the lovely straw man that's been set up there.
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You yourself say this: Levy is some unbeatable chairman guru though who still sails by some of you without seemingly a jot of questioning on his decision making.

Just because I'm not constantly questioning him or calling for him to go doesn't mean I think he gets everything spot on. It's just that the insignificance of the mistakes when looking at the bigger picture makes it pointless to make a big deal about it.
 
milo said:
A key skill in any job is to build successful working relationships. You can be the best around but if you are a pain in the **** to work with and constantly fall our with your boss you won't last long. Besides, it was not just Levy that AVB fell out with. He also had spats with Baldini, Freund and the medical team this season.

I don't really understand why you won't acknowledge that this was a problem for AVB at Spurs and was a failing of his. It feels like you ignore or explain away anything that does not support your views.
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Of course it's important to build good working relationships. Which is exactly what happened during the first season when AVB was calling Levy a 'person of great football understanding' and love was in the air. It's clear he can build good relationships, but when push comes to shove and decisions need to be made, about the direction of the club, AVB was a man with no support. He wanted out because he knew he wasn't the right man for the club. Sherwood has been bloody brilliant at building relationships and telling Levy what he wants to hear, doesn't make him any good though. I'm sure there came a point with Sherwood where at the point of push coming to shove, you either compromise yourself and what make you, you, or you realise you are in the wrong working environment and get out. AVB was the wrong hire. He doesn't need to just accept Levy's way when it's so different from his own. He can up and leave. He is a valuable commodity with a set of highly desirable skills, the idea that he should submit to the juggernaut of perennial Europa Leagers Tottenham is hilarious to me, as if we were the best he could do, or the only option he had.

The last line is so ironic btw.
 
Jordinho said:
You yourself say this: Levy is some unbeatable chairman guru though who still sails by some of you without seemingly a jot of questioning on his decision making.

Just because I'm not constantly questioning him or calling for him to go doesn't mean I think he gets everything spot on. It's just that the insignificance of the mistakes when looking at the bigger picture makes it pointless to make a big deal about it.
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I don't call an idea season wasted an insignificant mistake, certainly not when we had our very own lottery win at the beginning of it.
 
I find it pretty funny that the argument seems to be 'Levy's done well, we're punching at our weight, so there's no point talking about his mistakes' because you can bet your bottom dollar Levy doesn't take the same attitude with his own employees. He's as demanding as they come but his own fans let him off the same treatment!
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I don't call an idea season wasted an insignificant mistake, certainly not when we had our very own lottery win at the beginning of it.
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Levy's decisions at certain points this season have been logical and reasonable at the time of making them. I'm just going to file it as "one of those seasons", nothing we do is going to go our way. It's just the way it is.

He hasn't made any rash decisions or panicked, but simply kept things running along. If nobody was available to significantly boost our CL hopes mid-season or an obvious long(ish) term choice, then better to wait it out.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Of course it's important to build good working relationships. Which is exactly what happened during the first season when AVB was calling Levy a 'person of great football understanding' and love was in the air. It's clear he can build good relationships, but when push comes to shove and decisions need to be made, about the direction of the club, AVB was a man with no support. He wanted out because he knew he wasn't the right man for the club. Sherwood has been bloody brilliant at building relationships and telling Levy what he wants to hear, doesn't make him any good though. I'm sure there came a point with Sherwood where at the point of push coming to shove, you either compromise yourself and what make you, you, or you realise you are in the wrong working environment and get out. AVB was the wrong hire. He doesn't need to just accept Levy's way when it's so different from his own. He can up and leave. He is a valuable commodity with a set of highly desirable skills, the idea that he should submit to the juggernaut of perennial Europa Leagers Tottenham is hilarious to me, as if we were the best he could do, or the only option he had.

The last line is so ironic btw.
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His last paragraph is bang on tbf and sums your actions up perfectly.

You just come across as really bitter. Before AVB was sacked you didn't have a bad word to say about Levy despite him acting in similar fashion with previous managers but as soon as your guys gone then it's 'Levy this' and 'levy that'. In fact, not only did you not have a bad word to say but you continuously praised him. He makes a move that you don't like and you become Mr Benedict Arnold.
 
It's his company, he gets to do what he wants. If he was running the club like Ashley or Lerner or any of the other oddballs I would see the point, but he isn't.

It's very easy to say he has to go, but who takes over? Unless someone buys the club, nothing is going to happen.

It's never 'this season or never again'. We get to try again next year, we have NOT taken several steps backwards as some claim.

The manager is not the be-all and end-all of a club. He's just another cog. It's very romantic to think someone is going to come in and take charge of everything and get it all right, but that person doesn't exist and it's basically utterly unrealistic. We have a good setup that minimizes the amount of damage one person can inflict. Improvement comes slowly, and it won't come from just getting that one individual right, but decline can happen really fast if not careful.
 
Kingdawson said:
His last paragraph is bang on tbf and sums your actions up perfectly.

You just come across as really bitter. Before AVB was sacked you didn't have a bad word to say about Levy despite him acting in similar fashion with previous managers but as soon as your guys gone then it's 'Levy this' and 'levy that'. In fact, not only did you not have a bad word to say but you continuously praised him. He makes a move that you don't like and you become Mr Benedict Arnold.
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Isn't it quite nice then that I don't blindly stick to my entrenched views and change them based on my reactions to what I see happening in front of me then? :)

'Buck stops at the top' always seems to be the excuse to give the manager a kicking when things aren't going well, I'm wondering why this doesn't extend to the chairman? I'm wondering why people can't admit he clearly made the wrong hire after he sacked Harry? He got it wrong. It's like people are afraid to say anything bad because he's got us a few top 6 finishes.

NOT DENYING THEY HAVENT BEEN NICE TO HAVE THOUGH, simply asserting that I don't believe he's the man to take us further. And no one has actually argued that well enough back to me yet. Simply that 'we've been doing ok, so just leave it yeah?'
 
Jordinho said:
It's his company, he gets to do what he wants. If he was running the club like Ashley or Lerner or any of the other oddballs I would see the point, but he isn't.

It's very easy to say he has to go, but who takes over? Unless someone buys the club, nothing is going to happen.

It's never 'this season or never again'. We get to try again next year, we have NOT taken several steps backwards as some claim.

The manager is not the be-all and end-all of a club. He's just another cog. It's very romantic to think someone is going to come in and take charge of everything and get it all right, but that person doesn't exist and it's basically utterly unrealistic. We have a good setup that minimizes the amount of damage one person can inflict. Improvement comes slowly, and it won't come from just getting that one individual right, but decline can happen really fast if not careful.
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But what if...Levy is the man inflicting the most damage!? Who minimises him? Dum dum dum!
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Isn't it quite nice then that I don't blindly stick to my entrenched views and change them based on my reactions to what I see happening in front of me then? :)

'Buck stops at the top' always seems to be the excuse to give the manager a kicking when things aren't going well, I'm wondering why this doesn't extend to the chairman? I'm wondering why people can't admit he clearly made the wrong hire after he sacked Harry? He got it wrong. It's like people are afraid to say anything bad because he's got us a few top 6 finishes.

NOT DENYING THEY HAVENT BEEN NICE TO HAVE THOUGH, simply asserting that I don't believe he's the man to take us further. And no one has actually argued that well enough back to me yet. Simply that 'we've been doing ok, so just leave it yeah?'
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When it's dependant on how your favourites are treated then it's not nice at all (i understand that may not have been a genuine question btw).

Oh i certainly agree that Levy got it wrong by hiring AVB in the first place and it was clear it wasn't going to be a good fit for the club. People make mistakes though and i'm pretty sure 80% of chairmen have made the wrong managerial appointments from time to time (Levy a lot more than normal i agree).
 
I wonder why Ferguson was given time at Man Utd to change the culture, move them away from the macarons playing and in charge of the club at the time, turn them into a winning machine again?

Maybe something to do with the fact that the man, as harsh as he was, had an ability to make and maintain relationships? ;)
 
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