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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

He got those additions. Nelsen and Saha. If you expected us to add any actually quality players to the squad after that, please revise your estimation of how this club is run.

And therein lies the rub. Basically from that moment onwards our club has shown a chronic lack of ambition playerwise.

As I said at the time, we needed to invest in the team first and foremost. Others felt we needed a stadium as our top priority. That was the fundamental mistake. We have now fallen between two stools.
 
Is there seriously an argument about certain 'tactics' not working in the PL, despite our manager showing with much worse players that they can indeed work?

It's clearly, very obviously, about time being needed to not only take a system from the training field into games, but to then start winning with it too. It isn't easy. Individual players are having to adapt their games. First they struggle to adapt, then they get it in training, then they get it in some games but not others, and eventually they get it good. But it takes time.

What I've seen under Poch has shown better football than the entirety of AVB and Sherwood's reigns to be honest, certainly at WHL. But it's tough. I do think our atmosphere is a little to blame. It's not the only thing, but the fans are acting in quite an entitled way. By that I mean the atmosphere is great when we are playing fast paced football and looking fluid. But should we hit a tough patch in the game? The fans don't stick with the team. The atmosphere becomes poisonous. Everyone starts moaning. There's no real support, just howls of derision that it isn't all going to plan as it was a few minutes ago.

What is needed for success I think is a good coach, support, and time. I think we have a good coach. In time his methods will get absorbed by the players willing to take it on board, and dissenters will be sold. But if we don't have support, that process of taking on board new methods will take a lot longer, or could be stopped completely.

We are getting there. We are already playing good football in spurts and are losing points due to errors that likely come from trying to concentrate on what a new system requires as well as having it become second nature so points can be gained. May take a while but it's absolute nonsense to be calling for a manager to go. There's not really a lot he is doing wrong.

That is debatable, certainly regarding Sherwood's term. He followed, to a degree, the football played under Rednapp. FAST FLOWING INCISIVE football. I don't like Rednapp as a person but he sure as **** knew how to play progressive football, and play the Tottenham way. Put the opposition on the back foot from the off by playing fast and wide and make them worried about keeping THEIR form/position. Poch seems to want to try and dominate the forward midfield area which most of the Premier League teams are able to subdue.
 
Frustration does get the better of us. The defence and lack of cover is the problem. It's easy to blame Poch as he instructs these players but **** was the same under Sherwood and under AVB. It's something that needs to be fixed.
I hope people are finally starting to realise that playing against a team set in playing only on the break is really tough.
It will take time, possibly a large amount of it, before we can begin to regularly break these teams down.
 
I hope people are finally starting to realise that playing against a team set in playing only on the break is really tough.
It will take time, possibly a large amount of it, before we can begin to regularly break these teams down.

Agreed.
 
Starting Ade wasn't the mistake, not replacing him after 50 mins is.
We let them keep the momentum if the early goal.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
Ade scored today and if we had won 1-0, no one would have batted an eyelid. Our problem today wasn't Ade. And that is coming from someone who sees Ade as a third choice striker.

Thats not true. Eyelids were already batting even when we were winning. Anyone with two eyes could see how absolutely crap Ade was today and scoring a goal didnt cover that up. Of course Ade was'nt the only reason we lost today. We will never know what would have happened if Poch had (rightfully) dropped him.
 
I hope people are finally starting to realise that playing against a team set in playing only on the break is really tough.
It will take time, possibly a large amount of it, before we can begin to regularly break these teams down.

No it's really not that difficult. If as you describe him a halfwit like Sherwood could do it on a regular basis, how difficult can it be?
 
He got those additions. Nelsen and Saha. If you expected us to add any actually quality players to the squad after that, please revise your estimation of how this club is run.

I still find it hard to believe that those signings "actually" happened when we were not only heading towards a top 4 finish, but even had an outside chance of the title. When will we ever be that close again in a January window ! We had (almost) guaranteed top 4 security in our grasp for potentially years to come with the right signings. But instead we signed two old men for pennies, we fell apart and the rest, as they say, is history.

Its disgusting the way this club has bought this downfall on itself.
 
It seems to be getting worse week by week for Pochettino.

Only Santini, Ramos and Ardiles have worse Premier League records with Spurs than him.

Obviously, the chap still needs more time but how much longer has he got before the sign-writers are summoned for more work on the manager's door?
 
It seems to be getting worse week by week for Pochettino.

Only Santini, Ramos and Ardiles have worse Premier League records with Spurs than him.

Obviously, the chap still needs more time but how much longer has he got before the sign-writers are summoned for more work on the manager's door?

I think until we get rid of Baldini and he brings in his own players. He holds the reigns to selling the overrated ****e we have and bring in who and what he needs. The point of the DoF, amongst other things is for continuity but no point of continuing ****e if the players you bring in are not the right fit to the league or team even.

I didnt want Poch in the first place but im prepared to give him the chances and want him to continue but it is totally unfair on him given the shoddy overrated tools he has to work with.
 
This is still relevant:

Tottenham, unsurprisingly, are in yet another period of gross uncertainty. In fact, uncertainty at Tottenham is pretty much a default setting, perpetually present, or just lurking, waiting, behind a nearby corner. There’s a new stadium development embroiled in an affair that is not too dissimilar to a storyline from Suits, a third party apparently preparing a hostile takeover of the business with only a stream of cryptic club statements to shed any light on the situation. Amongst all that, there’s a new management team, all but a handful of games in to their time at club. It’s easy enough to forget about them.

Given the relative on-field success the club have experienced over the last decade, fan unrest has come in occasionally unreasonable fits and starts. There were issues, of course, such as Stratford and StubHub that were utterly deplorable, but on the whole, compared to clubs much further down the league than Spurs, there’s not really been all that much to complain about. However, given Mauricio Pochettino and his staff have been at the helm for eight whole matches now with mixed results, pockets of support will already be getting impatient and hyper-critical - it’s still Tottenham Hotspur, after all.

What needs to be remembered, however, is that Daniel Levy has once again pressed the reset button, essentially taking the club back to the start of a cycle that begun under André Villas-Boas those many, many moons ago. Tim Sherwood was a calculated risk tasked with bringing the good ship Tottenham in to port with as little fuss as possible, but in reality, he did little more than to further steer us toward the rocks, apparently distracted by his repeated attempts to publicly perform autofellatio…purely metaphorically, of course.

The one situation I’d most feel comfortable comparing this to - taking heart while I do so - is Brendan Rodgers first season in charge of a Liverpool side that was doing nothing more than spectacularly regressing, season after season. Similar to Pochettino, he came from a newly promoted Premier League side who’d succeeded in implementing an ideology and philosophy, making a squad of players and the resources available to him greater than the sum of its parts. However, the move was hardly a fairytale for Rodgers, and his first season returned indifferent results, leading some sections of the Liverpool support to call for his head. A season later, those same fans were begging him to make them “believe”.

Taking over in the summer before the 2012/13 season, around the same time Villas-Boas as appointed at Tottenham, high player turnover and lack of direction were Rodgers’ first battles to overcome. He had inherited a sizeable squad, one that wasn’t particularly suited to adapting to his tactical preferences, and had several big money signings to assess, all in an extremely short amount of time. By the time the transfer window had closed, he’d spent close to £50m, recouping just £10m. Eleven players left Liverpool in that time, with five coming in, but they had only won once in four pre-season matches.

The league season didn’t go that much better, and an unsuccessful campaign in the Europa League proved to be an unpopular distraction, despite Rodgers claiming numerous times that it was a competition he was invested in winning. Ownership had very recently changed hands at the club, and between new revelations regarding Hillsborough, and renewed interest in either expanding or rebuilding Anfield, off-field distractions were plentiful. Much like Pochettino, the environment he’d been parachuted in to was hardly geared towards helping him succeed immediately.

With just nine home victories all season, conceding forty-three and keeping just eleven clean sheets, Liverpool finished the season seventh with sixty-one points, two places and eleven points shy of a Gareth Bale propelled Tottenham side. They fell out of the FA Cup in the Fourth Round to lower league opposition in the shape of Oldham Athletic, and lost at the same stage in the League Cup to Rodgers’ old side Swansea at home. Liverpool topped their Europa League group on Goals For, but fell at the very next hurdle in the Round of 32 against Zenit on away goals.

As the season drew to a close, Rodgers was looked at as little more than a figure of fun. His tendency to speak in David Brent like soundbites and use management stunts as motivational tools was highlighted in the ill-advised ‘being Liverpool’ documentary, which did little to aid his, or his sides, reputation. In fact, so low had become his stock that in February 2013, midway through the season, the Bleacher Report published an article called ‘Has the Brendan Rodgers Project Already Failed?’.

Now, with the benefit of hindsight, we’re in a better position to analyse just how useful that first season in charge was for Rodgers, and how the successes of his second in charge were aided by the experiences and lessons learnt initially. The transfer activity that summer was much more purposeful, the players once labelled ‘flops’ pushed themselves to become integral members of the side after growing increasingly familiar with the tactical ethos and ideology in place, and Rodgers was much more settled in his surroundings.

With his first season used as a prolonged learning curve despite the fan unrest at the lack of standout results and failure to achieve European football, Liverpool came out of his second season in charge five places higher in the league, with twenty-three more points returned than the previous campaign. The writer at the Bleacher Report finally had an answer to his question.

The parallels between both situations are, in my opinion at least, fairly undeniable. Both on and off the field, that uncertainty has engulfed both clubs, and both managers. Unlike those Liverpool fans who had predictably called for Rodgers to be sacked, of course unaware of what was to come but a season later, the best thing Tottenham fans can do in a similar situation is to show a little bit of understanding and patience.

Five games in to the season, Pochettino is already five points better off than Rodgers was in his first season in charge at the same stage. Both share comparable attacking tactical identities that are too fine tuned and complex to be learnt and implemented overnight. For proof of that, one only has to look back to this summer, and see just how many of the players Pochettino helped become household names at Southampton were targeted and signed by Rodgers at Liverpool.

To simplify a season, the success Rodgers found in his second campaign at Liverpool was largely down to three factors: lack of European football and increased preparation/resting time, boardroom patience in not sacking their manager and backing him, and the squads familiarity and belief in the tactical identity they would be going in to the new season with. A combination of largely those three things, on the back of an indifferent first season results wise, is why Liverpool improved so dramatically. Most importantly for Tottenham, they’re qualities that can be easily replicated given the chance.

It is highly likely that this season will bring with it further disappointing results, and when they come, anger will likely fog any semblance of perspective. It goes without saying that if Pochettino were to go the rest of the season undefeated, winning silverware on the way and finding a way back in to the Champions League, no complaints would be heard coming from my direction. However, being realistic, that doesn’t really look like happening any time soon.

Having read that, it shouldn’t surprise you that despite the results, I’m still positive about the season ahead for Tottenham under Pochettino, and seeing him evolve in the role. What will be increasingly interesting is which players he’ll start to prefer, which players will become marginalised and the system he begins to settle his side within. Separating the football on-field, and the business off-field is no easy task, but it’s one that will help Pochettino settle in a much quicker time. In the handful of games we’ve already played there have been flashes of tactical understanding shown between player and manager, and that can only improve the more time they spend together on the training field.

Lowering expectations and accepting that, in the short term at least, failure might not actually be the end of the world isn’t a mindset Tottenham fans will be used to adopting, and nor should it be. However, learning to be patient, assessing the context of a certain situation and applying logic in places where emotion usually dictates ones outlook, now that, that could be useful to everyone involved in the long run
 
I think until we get rid of Baldini and he brings in his own players. He holds the reigns to selling the overrated ****e we have and bring in who and what he needs. The point of the DoF, amongst other things is for continuity but no point of continuing ****e if the players you bring in are not the right fit to the league or team even.

I didnt want Poch in the first place but im prepared to give him the chances and want him to continue but it is totally unfair on him given the shoddy overrated tools he has to work with.

This.
 
Said it in another thread but for me it's the players who are on trial not Pochettino. We back Pochettino and that means we let him assess and learn about his squad. If he decides a player isn't what he needs then support him in shifting him on.

Stop judging him over 8 games. It's absolutely ludicrous and the fans are as culpable as anyone for this never ending cycle of change. This sense of entitlement needs to stop. The derogatory remarks, constant sniping and moaning from the crowd has to stop. It was just awful today.
 
That is debatable, certainly regarding Sherwood's term. He followed, to a degree, the football played under Rednapp. FAST FLOWING INCISIVE football. I don't like Rednapp as a person but he sure as **** knew how to play progressive football, and play the Tottenham way. Put the opposition on the back foot from the off by playing fast and wide and make them worried about keeping THEIR form/position. Poch seems to want to try and dominate the forward midfield area which most of the Premier League teams are able to subdue.

The football under Sherwood was horrible. Absolutely no plan whatsoever. We scored a few more goals, but it wasn't entertaining. Taking the fixture list into the equation our results didn't improve either.
 
I think until we get rid of Baldini and he brings in his own players. He holds the reigns to selling the overrated ****e we have and bring in who and what he needs. The point of the DoF, amongst other things is for continuity but no point of continuing ****e if the players you bring in are not the right fit to the league or team even.

I didnt want Poch in the first place but im prepared to give him the chances and want him to continue but it is totally unfair on him given the shoddy overrated tools he has to work with.

I don't see how the answer is to move in the opposite direction of every other top club in Europe and give the manager even less time to coach the players.
 
If you want an example of short term ism in football today, it's the fact that fans are citing west ham and Southampton as teams to aspire to. It's ludicrous.

From wanting to emulate borussia dortmund we now want to play like fat Sam
 
The football under Sherwood was horrible. Absolutely no plan whatsoever. We scored a few more goals, but it wasn't entertaining. Taking the fixture list into the equation our results didn't improve either.

I dont agree with that at all. We played two strikers and attacked teams with a fast pace. That was the plan. And it was largely successful against all but the top 4 clubs. Sherwood worked out our defence stank and that we needed to outscore opponents. Against the lesser teams, this plan largely worked. I preferred watching this style than that under both AVB and (so far) Poch. Remember, TS had no pre-season, a crocked defence and no players of his own choice. Yet still we managed to score goals goals goals. It really aint rocket science that some would have you believe.
 
Too many of our fans and a large %'age of our players think we are so much better than we really are, its like we have a GHod given right to win everygame just by putting the shirt on
 
Too many of our fans and a large %'age of our players think we are so much better than we really are, its like we have a GHod given right to win everygame just by putting the shirt on

agreed.

we are restarting as some of the clever posters have mentioned. This feels like 04/05 to me. Which is funny as many believed last year was the worst since 03/04.
 
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