parklane1
Tony Galvin
Sin problema señor!
-
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
Sin problema señor!
metalgear
Luka Modric
I've seen enough to predict that he won't be able to step up to win something significant in his career.
Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Bullet
Andy Thompson
You've just translated "where with all" and "where with all" does not mean the same as "wherewithal". There is no direct translation, other than medios/recursos
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
42 games with a squad that went multiple windows without any improvements and is coming to the end of its cycle. And in that time we still made a CL final.
Does he prefer younger players? Probably? Does the way they have been motivated and the hardship that this squad has been through with no stadium, less wages etc mean they may be more keen to leave than had they had an easier life at a different club? Quite possibly too.
But we simply don’t know that any other Manager comes in and does much better with this squad over the long term, especially considering the current Manager has obviously wanted certain players out for a long time and is therefore likely just as wary of the stagnation that was about to occur.
I would also say, as a slightly seperate point, people are pointing to Poch’s contradictions in the press as a reason for the failure now, but he has always done this. I go back to the idea that he sends mixed messages so no one really knows what is going on. Through the years that has worked pretty well and kept everyone off of any scent.
yiddo37
Didier Zokora
Just want to see some passion from the players and manager, not out of control stuff more desire in our play. As @parklane1 alluded to the pace of our play is pedestrian and some players aren't cutting it at the moment. For the time being the likes of Rose, Aurier, etc. have to be involved within the squad until January as more disharmony will only cause more problems and it also gives others a chance to rest up or get back from injury, ie. Davies. @markysimmo has mentioned on a few occasions the lack of attacking players in the team and he's absolutely right although I would like to see Dier back in the side. Once settled I would hope we go back to a system the players are happy with to optimize theirs and therefore the teams performance. Until January I'd like to see the following team barring injuries with no more than 2-3 changes to freshen things:
--------------------Gazzaniga------------------------
Foyth----Sanchez----Vertonghen---Davies
-----------------Dier--------Ndombele-------------
---------Moura------Dele-----------Son-----------
-------------------------Kane---------------------------
Performances have been very up and down the past 12-18 months and I'm hoping it's the upheaval that's surrounded the club in that time that's mainly responsible. Once the side is settled and LoCelso and Sessegnon come into the squad properly we'll see if Poch can regain his magic from the first 3 seasons and we move forward. If things continue to go as they have been then I really don't know what will happen, will be a shame to see Poch sacked but will it be unavoidable if we're languishing in the bottom half of the table?
--------------------Gazzaniga------------------------
Foyth----Sanchez----Vertonghen---Davies
-----------------Dier--------Ndombele-------------
---------Moura------Dele-----------Son-----------
-------------------------Kane---------------------------
Performances have been very up and down the past 12-18 months and I'm hoping it's the upheaval that's surrounded the club in that time that's mainly responsible. Once the side is settled and LoCelso and Sessegnon come into the squad properly we'll see if Poch can regain his magic from the first 3 seasons and we move forward. If things continue to go as they have been then I really don't know what will happen, will be a shame to see Poch sacked but will it be unavoidable if we're languishing in the bottom half of the table?
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
Slow play comes from slow thought and arguably slow movement... when your trying to start attacks from the back you need someone with some urgency... we have two geriatrics now
lurker of old
Gus Poyet
People should trust that Poch knows exactly what he wants to do
Managers who are failing never go for the simple solution, ie a back 4 screened by Dier or Skipp.
The team is so much less than the sum of its parts right now, and that is totally down to the manager.
Managers who are failing never go for the simple solution, ie a back 4 screened by Dier or Skipp.
The team is so much less than the sum of its parts right now, and that is totally down to the manager.
NYSpur
Hossam Ghaly
Looking back, I believe the last game that we were looking like the exciting attacking Poch team was away at Everton in December. That day the team was :
- 1 Lloris
- 2 Trippier
- 6 Sanchez
- 4 Alderweireld
- 33 Davies
- 8 Winks
- 17 Sissoko
- 23 Eriksen
- 20 Alli
- 7 Son
- 10 Kane
- Substitutes
- 3 Rose
- 11 Lamela (s 46')
- 16 Walker-Peters
- 21 Foyth
- 22 Gazzaniga
- 27 Lucas Moura (s 83')
- 52 Skipp (s 79')
Hashegotthesackyet?
Gudni Bergsson
Everybody dance now!
spurspinter1
Steve Carr
No but I've got a sauce at the club that has been reliably informed that Poch is under the impression that the next game will be tough, it might come up in the pre-game press conference, only time will tell. Pinch of salt, don't shoot the messenger etc etc.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
And yet, we tried this exact thing at Brighton and it was one of the worst performances for years. It suggests to me there is something bigger going on than the Manager not doing the obvious things, because the rot is structural and is a build up of lots of things.
The Everton game mentioned above was also a pretty simple, bog standard 4-2-3-1. It isn’t the formation that is the issue. Players are not winning their individual battles. They are not anticipating well. They are not confident and they are scarcely taking risks. Poch can do what he can do, but bigger change needs to happen.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Simple as that really, there is a lot of hot air by some fans moaning about formations but that is missing the real reason.
Just booted up a game of Football Manager 2019 this afternoon.
First task was selling the following;
Gazzaniga, Aurier, Rose, Jan, Toby, Dier, Wanyama, Sissoko, Eriksen and Lamela.
Quite a bit of disruption, but it needed doing!
...going to be a big season for Skippy, Jack Roles, Carter-Vickers, and Oakley-Booth, to name just a few!!!
come on Poch, follow suit!
First task was selling the following;
Gazzaniga, Aurier, Rose, Jan, Toby, Dier, Wanyama, Sissoko, Eriksen and Lamela.
Quite a bit of disruption, but it needed doing!
...going to be a big season for Skippy, Jack Roles, Carter-Vickers, and Oakley-Booth, to name just a few!!!
come on Poch, follow suit!
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Mate, I really don’t think it’s an overreaction. If you look at the points total over the last 3 seasons it has got worse each season; 77, 71, doesn’t look like it will be over 70 this season. It’s been crap since February. We’ve only beaten mid table teams or teams who got relegated, our home form is lukewarm but our away form is even worse. Personally I’d say the two games that were turning points for us this year we Wolves at home and Burnley away. Two games when neutrals started to talk us up as title challengers but fell completely flat on our faces in both games as we always do whenever we have the chance to put pressure on the league leaders, not to mention Poch’s Gallas style meltdown at Turf Moor. That game felt like he knew the title was gone.
We keep thinking each defeat is as bad as it gets but it keep getting worse; losing to Colchester, getting pumped by Bayern, losing 3-0 to Brighton and now scraping a draw against the worst team in the league.
If I could give him any advice it would be to pick the players who are playing well; Lamela and Ndombele, keep it simple, play the formation that suits the players best and which they feel most comfortable with.
I say all of this as someone still behind Poch. At the same time I am baffled when people say this is a blip as we’ve been crap since February. 19 defeats out of 42 games.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
You're right formation isn't the issue really. That's just moving deckchairs around the Titanic. However it's a popular debate amongst fans because the alternative formation we choose can never really be tested. It's not personnel. Players become better in people's heads after a spell out. Dier was championed on here before Brighton, played and was awful. It's also not players throwing in the towel and not giving a fudge... certainly not in the way being inferred by several posters on here.
It's simply a case that the players have lost confidence in Poch. The lack of loyalty to the club, the digging the players out in public, the book, the lemons and aura flimflam, the acting like a spoilt teenager, the inane utterances, the lack of a proper Plan B. You cant believe in or follow a man who carries on like that and it's being reflected on the pitch.
He's a decent man, he's done a great job here and he'll go to another club and do well for a period. But he's done here.
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
Clearly you are right and there is more going on beyond the formation - he’s lost the dressing room and either half the squad needs to go or the manager has to go. If its true that players like dele and kane have also had enough of Poch then undoubtedly the manager has to be the one that walks.
But systems cannot be dismissed as a mere side note to whats causing the issues on the pitch.
At brighton he played a ridiculous 4141 formation and stuck ndombele as one of the four, just like he did to sissoko in that formation when he first signed for us. It meant we had no one who could under pressure get the ball off the centre backs or full backs and then get it into the attacking midfielders.
Systems are important and the fact that poch is also getting that wrong atm is very very damning.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Ok, I mean we have absolutely nothing to suggest that the lemons and the aura stuff is the reason for anything, unless you are genuinely party to something behind the scenes which I’m not, in which case I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong.
The loyalty to the club is in turning down Madrid while the same players look for an exit route every single window. Did they lose confidence in him before the CL final or straight after? They are in it for themselves more than Poch is.
Poch is sticking with players he would clearly like to personally bomb out and is not digging them in public at all. There are a few getting way more playing time then they deserve and soon they will be put out of their misery.
I don’t deny that some players may feel like they aren’t motivated by it anymore. And if the core that we expect to be here long term; Dele, Kane, Son, Winks, Sanchez - if those guys have truly ‘lost confidence’, then I’d say there’s nothing Poch can do to save himself. But if it’s simply that the players have lost confidence after a collective hammering and a tough window where certain ones didn’t get the moves that they expected, then Poch can still easily recover this because he has enough credit. I’d expect Levy to have asked Kane for example what he feels the problem is, and I don’t think Kane is throwing Poch under the bus.
I’d say the problem is not that the group as a whole has lost confidence, more than there are now 2 groups. Those that want to stay and still believe, and those who aren’t at the level they need to be and have been angling for moves. I remember watching a game in Poch’s first season where Jan was furious at Kaboul right on the pitch for being out of position, absolutely furious. And I thought it was interesting seeing Kane shake his head after his good ball went out to Aurier who let it go out of play. I wouldn’t be surprised if the players that still believe are getting fudged off with the ones that aren’t pulling their weight. As such we aren’t as tight knit, we aren’t on one page, we aren’t pulling each other through the tough times and recovering quickly.
Kane’s pointed comments a few weeks back suggest to me something along these lines - that players out for themselves need to help the team succeed still because it will make them look better. This makes much more sense to me than the whole squad having lost confidence, because frankly I think if that was the case Poch would already be out. And given what he did with Espanyol, he may have resigned already.
But isn't that the problem?
- Why would we accept that 1 player or 3 or 5 are not motivated anymore?
- Harry Redknapp managed to get Modric's best season out of him when Levy made him stay an extra year
- I genuinely don't believe Jan, Eriksen, Toby, Rose are characters that don't put in a shift game in, game out.
I'm sorry, this should be a simple conversation, play your ass off, continue to show why someone will want to buy you and come January or Summer you get your dream move, big paycheck, whatever the fudge it is.
But what it seems is Poch (who himself was indecisive at CL) is upset that people are committed to his cause and that is potentially what is the issue, not that the players want to leave, but perhaps he can't accept it.
It comes back to Poch looking very much like a one trick pony, everyone needs to be a believer and run themselves into the ground vs. allowing very good players to at least play at a par level.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
Sending mixed messages about whether or not he'd be here. Saying this isn't the best squad he's had. Talking about different agendas in the squad. Digging out Dier in his book. Inferring Sissoko was a Levy signing in his book and distancing himself from the contract extension. Talking brick about the club.
If I'm being led by someone I want to know they're gonna be there when times get tough. Pochs not done that with all of the above.
And during their darkest hour, after losing the CL final, you need your manager to set the example. To rally the troops. To tell them it's a setback but we'll be back. What did our man apparently do. Abandoned ship because he was so disappointed and fudged off to Barcelona on his own.
That's not a leader. Thats a spoilt brat who lets his own emotions dictate his decisions. He's a charlatan and what we are seeing now is the culmination of all his childish antics and utterances combined with his limited tactical acumen. This will only end one way. The sooner the better.