Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Raziel]

Sending mixed messages about whether or not he'd be here. Saying this isn't the best squad he's had. Talking about different agendas in the squad. Digging out Dier in his book. Inferring Sissoko was a Levy signing in his book and distancing himself from the contract extension. Talking brick about the club.

If I'm being led by someone I want to know they're gonna be there when times get tough. Pochs not done that with all of the above.

And during their darkest hour, after losing the CL final, you need your manager to set the example. To rally the troops. To tell them it's a setback but we'll be back. What did our man apparently do. Abandoned ship because he was so disappointed and fudged off to Barcelona on his own.

That's not a leader. Thats a spoilt brat who lets his own emotions dictate his decisions. He's a charlatan and what we are seeing now is the culmination of all his childish antics and utterances combined with his limited tactical acumen. This will only end one way. The sooner the better.

Mate, most people here don't get leadership at a big business level (and Spurs is big business)

- I hear about the players, I hear about injuries, about the stadium last year, about unsettled squads, not enough transfers windows ..

Truth is, none of that matters, as the manager of a club (leader) on pitch success or failure is your responsibility and not owning that is such a red flag ..

 

[Raziel]

One of my main concerns with Poch is his record in the transfer market. It has been less than stellar so far. I'm wondering if he is the guy to spend money in January. Buys like Aurier, Jannsen and even Sanchez have hardly been a roaring success. Thoughts?

This is part of the experience at this level issue

- Some people in/around club have indicated Poch was put off by some of his less than stellar results with his buys, and that was part of the reason he didn't take certain players Levy offered in the period we didn't buy anyone.

Peter principle applies here -> the principle that members of a hierarchy are promoted until they reach the level at which they are no longer competent.

- Because Poch was good managing 22 year olds does not somehow automatically translate into managing experienced players in their prime
- Because he took a top 6 side and made them top 4 does not mean he will ever win anything
- Because he bought a few good cheaper players doesn't mean he will be good at identifying >$50M players

At best people are advocating to let him learn on the job at a point in his career where everything is being questioned .. very few people are capable of that sort of course correct.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Just booted up a game of Football Manager 2019 this afternoon.

First task was selling the following;
Gazzaniga, Aurier, Rose, Jan, Toby, Dier, Wanyama, Sissoko, Eriksen and Lamela.

Quite a bit of disruption, but it needed doing!

...going to be a big season for Skippy, Jack Roles, Carter-Vickers, and Oakley-Booth, to name just a few!!!

come on Poch, follow suit!

Get Georgiou in at left back.

 

[metalgear]

Always been a committee so yes and no.
Tough one but maybe he doesn't know how to negotiate or base it on auras a bit too much

One of my main concerns with Poch is his record in the transfer market. It has been less than stellar so far. I'm wondering if he is the guy to spend money in January. Buys like Aurier, Jannsen and even Sanchez have hardly been a roaring success. Thoughts?

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[thfcsteff]

Mate, most people here don't get leadership at a big business level (and Spurs is big business)

- I hear about the players, I hear about injuries, about the stadium last year, about unsettled squads, not enough transfers windows ..

Truth is, none of that matters, as the manager of a club (leader) on pitch success or failure is your responsibility and not owning that is such a red flag ..

I'm sorry, what a laughable assumption. How could you possibly know that? What 'big business' are you speaking of? Do you think operating a company such as, say, Chevron, the same as running a Premiership football club? Please.

We can get into that discussion later on, what I'd like to know is where are you seeing that he isn't "owning" the situation? I don't see him wearing a t-shirt saying "blame me it is my fault" but I also don't see him throwing under the bus the massive under-performers and dissenters which to my eyes remain a clear and obvious issue.

I am personally baffled that he continues to play Alderweireld, and wonder what Davies needs to do for a chance at LB. I'd even play Dier at RB over Aurier right now, so I would agree that Poch is making some decisions which baffle me.

When I look at the side which started yesterday, I see Rose/Alderweireld/Verts/Aurier all elsewhere come June, with Eriksen obviously isn the same place.
I see Lo Celso, Ndombele and Sessegnon isn as potential starters; two have been injured mot of the season, and one is acclimatizing to the pace.
If we were to get, say, Fernandez and Atal, we would already moving some way towards rejuvenation which could well see Kane, Son and Dele find their levels again due to speed and technical skill of creative play improving.

We clearly disagree on what we feel needs to happen in the net 8 months.
I think we need to ride the storm, be brave, hope we can hang in within range of the top 4 and make a New Year burst after some busy work in January. If not that, the summer.
I hope Poch gets the chance to continue the rebuild. He has, IMO, been let down by several "senior players" this season, and they need to be moved on.

That being said, I agree with those who say his own language/demeanour needs to improve. He needs to find a bullish public spirit and projection. He needs to really step up and "act" the leader, project. I think he is still somewhat baffled and learning his way through the moment, I back him to get there. But I do agree, he has to read some the obvious signs, such as Aurier simply not being good enough...

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

That's not a leader. Thats a spoilt brat who lets his own emotions dictate his decisions. He's a charlatan and what we are seeing now is the culmination of all his childish antics and utterances combined with his limited tactical acumen. This will only end one way. The sooner the better.

I’m sorry but that paragraph is far too harsh for me.

 

[billyiddo]

One of my main concerns with Poch is his record in the transfer market. It has been less than stellar so far. I'm wondering if he is the guy to spend money in January. Buys like Aurier, Jannsen and even Sanchez have hardly been a roaring success. Thoughts?

He's had to shop in the bargain basement and i doubt whether he's had a single first choice signing in the last 3 or 4 years. This summer we had some money to spend and on paper look to have bought well - as with all top managers if they are allowed to buy the players they want for their teams they generally do well - see Klopp at Liverpool and Guardiola at City, both struggled until they had several windows of big incoming transfers.

 

[billyiddo]

I’m sorry but that paragraph is far too harsh for me.

this, some people have gone off the deep end recently and it's a sad sight to see

 

[the goat]

Ok, I mean we have absolutely nothing to suggest that the lemons and the aura stuff is the reason for anything, unless you are genuinely party to something behind the scenes which I’m not, in which case I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong.

The loyalty to the club is in turning down Madrid while the same players look for an exit route every single window. Did they lose confidence in him before the CL final or straight after? They are in it for themselves more than Poch is.

Poch is sticking with players he would clearly like to personally bomb out and is not digging them in public at all. There are a few getting way more playing time then they deserve and soon they will be put out of their misery.

I don’t deny that some players may feel like they aren’t motivated by it anymore. And if the core that we expect to be here long term; Dele, Kane, Son, Winks, Sanchez - if those guys have truly ‘lost confidence’, then I’d say there’s nothing Poch can do to save himself. But if it’s simply that the players have lost confidence after a collective hammering and a tough window where certain ones didn’t get the moves that they expected, then Poch can still easily recover this because he has enough credit. I’d expect Levy to have asked Kane for example what he feels the problem is, and I don’t think Kane is throwing Poch under the bus.

I’d say the problem is not that the group as a whole has lost confidence, more than there are now 2 groups. Those that want to stay and still believe, and those who aren’t at the level they need to be and have been angling for moves. I remember watching a game in Poch’s first season where Jan was furious at Kaboul right on the pitch for being out of position, absolutely furious. And I thought it was interesting seeing Kane shake his head after his good ball went out to Aurier who let it go out of play. I wouldn’t be surprised if the players that still believe are getting fudged off with the ones that aren’t pulling their weight. As such we aren’t as tight knit, we aren’t on one page, we aren’t pulling each other through the tough times and recovering quickly.

Kane’s pointed comments a few weeks back suggest to me something along these lines - that players out for themselves need to help the team succeed still because it will make them look better. This makes much more sense to me than the whole squad having lost confidence, because frankly I think if that was the case Poch would already be out. And given what he did with Espanyol, he may have resigned already.

you seem to be forgetting last season, from Feb last year we were awful in the league, we were lucky to get to the CL final, against Emirates Marketing Project & Ajax it wasn't Poch's tactics that got us the result it was a bit of luck and moura just having a mad spell, its easy of me as I never was a Poch supporter, (I don't think getting players fit so they can press is a tactic, what happens in training ? they can't be practicing corners or free kicks or defending, we can't be this bad if we practice them)

 

[the goat]

in the Leicester season we were mentally weak, both players & manager, Poch said we will learn for the season, but did he bring in mentally strong players or mental physiatrist ? we are still weak

 

[thfcsteff]

- Harry Redknapp managed to get Modric's best season out of him when Levy made him stay an extra year
- I genuinely don't believe Jan, Eriksen, Toby, Rose are characters that don't put in a shift game in, game out.

Eriksen’s mentality is a thousand miles from Modric’s. It is why Modric is at Real Madrid with a brickload of CL winner medals under his belt, whereas Eriksen isn’t.

 

[thfcsteff]

this, some people have gone off the deep end recently and it's a sad sight to see

Frankly it appalls me.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I wasn’t at the game on Saturday. But what do people make of Poch’s comments about the fans? I know people who were at the game and they said considering what was served up and how bad we are currently the atmosphere was good.

It’s not like he can point to a toxic atmosphere at home games and everything is hunky dory on our travels either because our away form is even feckin worse!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I'm sorry, what a laughable assumption. How could you possibly know that? What 'big business' are you speaking of? Do you think operating a company such as, say, Chevron, the same as running a Premiership football club? Please.

We can get into that discussion later on, what I'd like to know is where are you seeing that he isn't "owning" the situation? I don't see him wearing a t-shirt saying "blame me it is my fault" but I also don't see him throwing under the bus the massive under-performers and dissenters which to my eyes remain a clear and obvious issue.

I am personally baffled that he continues to play Alderweireld, and wonder what Davies needs to do for a chance at LB. I'd even play Dier at RB over Aurier right now, so I would agree that Poch is making some decisions which baffle me.

When I look at the side which started yesterday, I see Rose/Alderweireld/Verts/Aurier all elsewhere come June, with Eriksen obviously isn the same place.
I see Lo Celso, Ndombele and Sessegnon isn as potential starters; two have been injured mot of the season, and one is acclimatizing to the pace.
If we were to get, say, Fernandez and Atal, we would already moving some way towards rejuvenation which could well see Kane, Son and Dele find their levels again due to speed and technical skill of creative play improving.

We clearly disagree on what we feel needs to happen in the net 8 months.
I think we need to ride the storm, be brave, hope we can hang in within range of the top 4 and make a New Year burst after some busy work in January. If not that, the summer.
I hope Poch gets the chance to continue the rebuild. He has, IMO, been let down by several "senior players" this season, and they need to be moved on.

That being said, I agree with those who say his own language/demeanour needs to improve. He needs to find a bullish public spirit and projection. He needs to really step up and "act" the leader, project. I think he is still somewhat baffled and learning his way through the moment, I back him to get there. But I do agree, he has to read some the obvious signs, such as Aurier simply not being good enough...

I think on Aurier, and generally the other players that will be out pretty soon, is he is responding to something I thought about Walker.

If we’re to understand it correctly, Walker went to Poch in the middle of a title race and said his heart wasn’t in it anymore. He was then shocked that Poch dropped him for the big games. My opinion on this is that I can’t believe Walker is that thick, to not understand why that happened to him. But footballers are a special breed.

Footballers will say they want to leave and yet expect to play if they are still contracted to one club. It is ridiculous, and it is not how we as fans would reasonably expect to act if we were in the same situation. But they are footballers, and I think Poch has to deal with that. It isn’t optimal, but not doing it this way could make things even worse more quickly.

 

[Mikey10]

I wasn’t at the game on Saturday. But what do people make of Poch’s comments about the fans? I know people who were at the game and they said considering what was served up and how bad we are currently the atmosphere was good.

It’s not like he can point to a toxic atmosphere at home games and everything is hunky dory on our travels either because our away form is even feckin worse!

It’s a developing narrative in which it’s never Poch’s fault. It was “agendas” a few weeks ago. Before that it was because he was “a coach not a manager.” Now it’s the fans.

Another sign that it’s over, I’m afraid. It reads like the last weeks at every club Mourinho’s ever managed.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

you seem to be forgetting last season, from Feb last year we were awful in the league, we were lucky to get to the CL final, against Emirates Marketing Project & Ajax it wasn't Poch's tactics that got us the result it was a bit of luck and moura just having a mad spell, its easy of me as I never was a Poch supporter, (I don't think getting players fit so they can press is a tactic, what happens in training ? they can't be practicing corners or free kicks or defending, we can't be this bad if we practice them)

The "lucky to get to the CL final" narrative gets my back up.
The one true piece of luck was Inter not beating PSV in the last group game, which allowed us to go through to the knock-out stages, after a well-earned away draw against Barca.
Beyond that we still had to negotiate difficult ties against Dortmund, City and Ajax which we did. Is getting correct decisions via VAR deemed as luck? Or was it rather things falling for us as they should? Are we the first team ever to play through a competition without being the best team in every single game?

I'm not disputing that there are a lot of issues now, nor that there were issues last season. But let's not dismiss getting to the final of the biggest competition in club football as mere luck. That does a huge disservice to everyone.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It’s a developing narrative in which it’s never Poch’s fault. It was “agendas” a few weeks ago. Before that it was because he was “a coach not a manager.” Now it’s the fans.

Another sign that it’s over, I’m afraid. It reads like the last weeks at every club Mourinho’s ever managed.

Read the entire quotes in context. Picking at one line out of many isn’t helpful to anyone.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I think on Aurier, and generally the other players that will be out pretty soon, is he is responding to something I thought about Walker.

If we’re to understand it correctly, Walker went to Poch in the middle of a title race and said his heart wasn’t in it anymore. He was then shocked that Poch dropped him for the big games. My opinion on this is that I can’t believe Walker is that thick, to not understand why that happened to him. But footballers are a special breed.

Footballers will say they want to leave and yet expect to play if they are still contracted to one club. It is ridiculous, and it is not how we as fans would reasonably expect to act if we were in the same situation. But they are footballers, and I think Poch has to deal with that. It isn’t optimal, but not doing it this way could make things even worse more quickly.

You're taking Pochs word on that from his book. Walker disputed his version of events if I'm not mistaken.

 

[harr1984]

Whether you want Poch out or not, looks like he will be given this season at the very least unless involved in a relegation battle. So might aswell accept this is going to be a painful one of transition and once Lo Celso and Sess have been integrated into the team look to see if we start to get an upturn in performances. Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool have all had a season or two of transition before going again - we arent good enough or big enough to just stay up around the top 2/3 forever, it's probably just our turn to take a step back.....

 

[DeanoAustin]

I’m sorry but that paragraph is far too harsh for me.

Fair enough. It is harsh but I think fair. My main problem is not with results. If you have a manager for the long term you'll get spells like this particularly with the restrictions we have. What is unforgivable in my eyes is how Poch has conducted himself over the last few months. He had endless credit in the bank for me 12 months ago but he's behaved like a child and that's because he has no clue how to fix this.