• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Jose Mourinho - SACKED

Regarding the defensive nature and the counter attacking tactics.

I think there is a much greater chance of success if you play attacking players and get them doing defensive shifts - rather then overloading on defensive players, so that when you turn over possession you can really make teams pay.

One thing that I've noticed recently is that our ball retention on turnover is appalling. I believe part of the reason for this is we are often one body short moving forward.

The games where we've set out with only 3 attacking players, or 5 at the back are imo the biggest let downs - and I think they pan out as such for my reasons above.

As someone mentioned yesterday - there is no reason why we cant play a 433/4231 with the following

GK

RB
CB
CB
LB

PEH
Ndom

Son
Dele
Berg

Kane

Even though it looks attacking it could still be setup as a defensive system with Dele and Ndom supporting PEH without the ball and when we do turn possession over we have quality to keep the ball and hurt teams......and there is more than just 2 goal scorers in the team.
 
Benny_Lad said:
Regarding the defensive nature and the counter attacking tactics.

I think there is a much greater chance of success if you play attacking players and get them doing defensive shifts - rather then overloading on defensive players, so that when you turn over possession you can really make teams pay.

One thing that I've noticed recently is that our ball retention on turnover is appalling. I believe part of the reason for this is we are often one body short moving forward.

The games where we've set out with only 3 attacking players, or 5 at the back are imo the biggest let downs - and I think they pan out as such for my reasons above.

As someone mentioned yesterday - there is no reason why we cant play a 433/4231 with the following

GK

RB
CB
CB
LB

PEH
Ndom

Son
Dele
Berg

Kane

Even though it looks attacking it could still be setup as a defensive system with Dele and Ndom supporting PEH without the ball and when we do turn possession over we have quality to keep the ball and hurt teams......and there is more than just 2 goal scorers in the team.
Click to expand...

That is a good post, I prefer us to play four at the back for the reason that we have too many useless players in defence and making a substitution like Sanchez for Winks is often too late and not inspiring enough. I prefer Ndombele further forward so that leaves Sissoko for me alongside PEH in midfield. As nice as it is to see Dele up front, it’s not going to happen so for that reason I’ve pushed Ndombele into that central position with Son and Bergs on either side.
 
Baleforce said:
Of course not, we are still conceding goals.

I don't see not having a set formation as a bad thing, there is a variation of styles across Europe, being adaptable is a strength.

I think this is a stage we need to go through, and the changes he's made to the squad have been solid improvements on the whole.

I am fully on board with being an ultra defensive team that uses the dark arts to win stuff, I've wanted us to try that for years. As I've said before, we've tried the pretty for decades, it never worked.
Click to expand...

It doesn’t have to be an either or though mate. I think Poch had the balance close to perfect, we just needed a deeper squad and better tactics/formations/in game management at key moments. You can be resolute defensively and still show a bit more intent going forward than we do now. We don’t have great defenders. That’s not an insult to them but I don’t think any of the top teams would take any of our CB’s as starters. We have some very good players going forward in Reguilon, Ndombele, Aurier to compliment Kane and Son who are world class. The strength in our team is going forward. We need to play to our strengths more than we do now. I get that we need to be cautious at times but we’ve got Hojbjerg and Sissoko as reinforcements and I think we can afford to be a little bit more adventurous going forward. Maybe if we had done so against the likes of palace, Wolves, Brighton, Fulham etc we would have come away with the 3 points rather than 1 or zero. Believe it or not we can be quite dangerous ourselves when we attack.
 
afsoc4life said:
Fair post and I do agree that Jose is also in for some criticism. I have felt at times that he needs to let the team go at it in some games.
Click to expand...


I think that after the West Ham debacle that he just doesn’t trust them and who can blame him
 
LincsSpur said:
I think that after the West Ham debacle that he just doesn’t trust them and who can blame him
Click to expand...

The "blame" falls on the players but Jose is ultimately responsible unfortunately. I think as fans the vast majority would settle for losses if there was genuine effort put in by the team.

They seem to be lacking desire and belief, mourinho usually holds no prisoners but on this occasion his hand is forced due to the constraints of the clubs transfer policy and covid.

I'm sure if covid was not around levy having a hard on for Jose would have meant some real changes in the squad.

When you have sanchez, dier at the back with brain fart aurier you are going to ship in goals. Compound that with Lloris looking like he will concede every match cannot help.

This takes me to the point that we have been forced to play PEH along with a defensive midfield player like sissoko does not help matters in attack.

Get the man a reliable box to box midfield player that can chip in with goals we instantly become better. Get a quality CB in who can organise the defence and we start looking more solid at the back and after that we can genuinely play with confidence knowing we are solid.

This team reminds me of the 90's where we had a few brilliant players surrounded by complete fodder.

We may not have to make sensational signings that will put a serious debt in our finances, but buy players that can genuinely make a difference in the starting IX.

The fodder can be sold and slowly phased out. I think due to mourinhos previous experience he at the very least deserves a few transfer windows to solve the puzzle.

If getting shot of him this summer is the solution I would argue that the same players will sink the ship again.

Dier is the best CB at the club at the moment and that says it all.
 
LincsSpur said:
I think that after the West Ham debacle that he just doesn’t trust them and who can blame him
Click to expand...

We sat back after going 3 up in that game, which i don't mind so much tbf - it's not what i want to see but can see the logic, but as with most other points we have dropped this sesson it came through trying to see out the game - i doesn't make sense to me that he has doubled down on that apporoach seeings as that is eventually what cost us. The lesson learned from a game where we conceded 3 goals through not dealing with pressure/setpieces and making defensive mistakes is to approach games in a manner that we invite more of that on to us? How does that work?

Mourinho isn't going to coach mistakes out of players, that's not what he does his response is always tactical and to go more defensive - and in his last 2 jobs, where this happened, he couldn't reverse the defensive nature of the team once it had been put in place - that is what is happening here, and i know people are happy to kick the players for it but the title winning Chelsea team didn't turn it around and neither did the Europa League + League Cup winning United team - what's the reasoning there?
 
Last edited:
Gazza said:
Really? keep coming with these nuggets.

I think the point that Parklane was making was that replacing the manager doesn't mean that the same players that have failed previously poch and are now failing mourinho will all of a sudden become world beaters.

You have such an agenda that you cannot even make a balanced case.

The majority of people here acknowledge mourinho is having a poor spell, but at the very least they know its not all down to him but a large part being the players at the club.
Click to expand...
Lloris
Doherty/Aurier Dier Rodon Reggie
Ndombele PEH Lo Celso
Bergwijn Kane Son

I fail to see the legacy of mental weakness from failures or the Poch era in this starting line up. Largely because they are not the same players, and the ones that are I would be hesitant in calling them mentally weak or failing the manager.

It's a red herring.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Lloris
Doherty/Aurier Dier Rodon Reggie
Ndombele PEH Lo Celso
Bergwijn Kane Son

I fail to see the legacy of mental weakness from failures or the Poch era in this starting line up. Largely because they are not the same players, and the ones that are I would be hesitant in calling them mentally weak or failing the manager.

It's a red herring.
Click to expand...
When has that team been available this season?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Lloris
Doherty/Aurier Dier Rodon Reggie
Ndombele PEH Lo Celso
Bergwijn Kane Son

I fail to see the legacy of mental weakness from failures or the Poch era in this starting line up. Largely because they are not the same players, and the ones that are I would be hesitant in calling them mentally weak or failing the manager.

It's a red herring.
Click to expand...

Practically the same players failing Jose at Man U currently have them 11 points clear of us... yes 11. ELEVEN.

But aside from that, i agree with the above for the most part, this isn't down to the players he's made changes and brought in some singnings. Well, in some ways it is on the players, but Dier is brick at CB and if you continually pick him as your No1 CB...

Again and i will continually harp on about this... WE DO NOT ATTACK. We do not attack the opposition, we do not try and score goals, and the evidence is there for all to see. That's not the players failing Jose. That is Jose sticking to a method that is failing and doesn't work.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Bar Lo Celso most if the time.
Click to expand...
You sure?
I remember him being fit and Bergwein being out around the same time but I haven’t checked.
Rodon has only just really been brought into the fold but be has been available
Right now we’re missing 3/4 of the players you mention, and their key pieces of the jigsaw
That’s the team I’d like to see though
 
harr1984 said:
You can keep saying we have good enough players as much as you want, the evidence of threads on this forum suggest otherwise. Sanchez,Dier,Sissoko,Lamela,Lucas are just some of the players people have constantly moaned about for GHod knows how long. They are consistently still getting game time, we barely have a fit first XI so we have to use the squad and these players weren’t good enough under Poch and they aren’t now....
Click to expand...

No mate its all Jose fault or so i keep getting told. ;)
 
Bedfordspurs said:
You sure?
I remember him being fit and Bergwein being out around the same time but I haven’t checked.
Rodon has only just really been brought into the fold but be has been available
Right now we’re missing 3/4 of the players you mention, and their key pieces of the jigsaw
That’s the team I’d like to see though
Click to expand...
Might point was that the majority of the team can quite easily be picked from players that do not carry over some 'mentally weak' legacy from the previous regime. I could add Bale, Vini, Sess to that list.

And even some that might, Toby? (First thing Jose does is get him to sign a new contract Dier? (Jose's favourite lieutenant) Sissoko (not mentally weak just limited as a player). Lamela? (hardly fit but mentally weak..nah) And as I mentioned if you are going to question Kane Son Lloris mentality we might as well call it a day.

Of course there are players that should move on, but there is easily a large enough group to debunk the nonsense that there is still a hangover from the Poch era.

Unless we move onto there is some 'mentality hoodoo' the consumes any player as soon as he joins/plays for Tottenham Hotspur, and if that is a conversation, sorry I don't do woo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back