• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Jose Mourinho - SACKED

billyiddo said:
I'm using those games to highlight your argument that Lloris not making many saves v Palace meant the equalising goal wasn't coming, doesn't make sense
Click to expand...
Why doenst it?
It’s not like we’re conceding wordies ?
Their routine goals that arguably the team could defend better
Whereas some of ours are world class finishes
 
metalgear said:
This is how I evaluate JM.... Vs year ago. We've improved under him.

The press needs to put pressure on klopp... Huge failure already with the same set of players

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...

That doesn't actually do his case any good mate. 7 points more compared to half a season where we performed so badly in the first 12 games the previous manager had got sacked.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But compared to the other teams all with settled managers ?
Click to expand...

Liverpool & City both had stellar seasons so the drop off looks bad. I don't think anyone would argue they are having bad seasons by their standards.

Interesting that United have improved at a much better rate than us with OGS and that's compared to a season where they finished 3rd...
 
Last edited:
Bedfordspurs said:
Why doenst it?
It’s not like we’re conceding wordies ?
Their routine goals that arguably the team could defend better
Whereas some of ours are world class finishes
Click to expand...

Your argument seemed to be there wasn't a goal incoming v Palace, based on Lloris not having a save to make. I told you why, despite that, i felt the goal was coming - Palace were increasingly getting the ball in to dangerous areas and we were sat back inviting them on to us - GK not making saves does not mean a goal was coming...
 
billyiddo said:
Liverpool & City both had stellar seasons so the drop off looks bad. I don't think anyone would argue they are having bad seasons by their standards.

Interesting that United have improved at a much better rate than us with OGS and that's compared to a season where they finished 3rd...
Click to expand...
Yep
Guess that’s what being somewhere for 2 years can help with

both have a 54% win percentage at their clubs now too I believe
 
Last edited:
Raziel said:
So my opinion

- Yes, Jose has had investment partially because it appears he very clear with who/what he wants.
- That said, we bought 7 players (and you could argue this is Ndombele's first real season). PEH & Reguilon's immediate impact seemingly has made everyone forget that, this team will get better as players adapt, to judge on the first half of season where we are still in 4 competitions and come up with a complete negative is a bit OTT.

What do I think is happening?

- It seemingly is beyond people's understanding that we don't play the same way every game, Jose is not Poch/Klopp/Pep who will play the same way every game, he does believe in countering the opponent, this sometimes creates a negate game that isn't pretty (even if we play well), so even on a good run of form, you will have games that vary in "attractiveness"
- The side is not finished work, the defence is "ok" (better with PEH and a more defensive team mindset), midfield still lacks in a natural possession oriented player, front line is WC
- Jose from day one sees a lot of our problems in the meteorology of the players, hence he is trying to teach how to defend as a team, and how to manage a game out, if you lead, if you can control the game, manage the risk.

I think (and see Kane's comments) the players believe more in themselves (perhaps sometimes to complacency), are much more comfortable trying to manage a game out and collectively still haven't got the balance right on when to be more ruthless, when to accept the lead, how to manage the game. But make no mistake, the bad results now are mostly draws.

Jose should be judged at the end of season
Click to expand...

Let's watch that first paragraph closely. No-one is stupid. We know who we have and who he isn't. However when it happens time and time again in specific games, questions are there to be asked of the manager.

As for the second, I think (lack of winning) mentality was always overplayed. I would argue our overall mentality was excellent given what we dealt with for several years, where we lacked was at the final hurdle. We need Mourinho's experience there. We also need him to play to our strengths, which are not the likes of Sanchez. I appreciate what he is looking to do, but he needs to also engage our flair a bit more. Lots to be said on this but have to roll on...why don't you join us as a pod guest one week? You'd be a great guest/counter-point IMO...
 
billyiddo said:
Your argument seemed to be there wasn't a goal incoming v Palace, based on Lloris not having a save to make. I told you why, despite that, i felt the goal was coming - Palace were increasingly getting the ball in to dangerous areas and we were sat back inviting them on to us - GK not making saves does not mean a goal was coming...
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this. A team could have two or three 1 v 1’s and blast them wide or over the bar. Just because the keeper isn’t making saves doesn’t mean the other team isn’t dangerous. It’s a similar principle in cricket; pressure and great bowling leads to wickets. If you allow the other team to build pressure, dominate the midfield and the game in general and accumulate more possession and set pieces you are asking for trouble. Palace, Wolves and Fulham were all avoidable had we attacked them more.
 
billyiddo said:
Your argument seemed to be there wasn't a goal incoming v Palace, based on Lloris not having a save to make. I told you why, despite that, i felt the goal was coming - Palace were increasingly getting the ball in to dangerous areas and we were sat back inviting them on to us - GK not making saves does not mean a goal was coming...
Click to expand...

I agree.
Personally, I think it highlights the issues of XG and other stat-based platforms versus eyes. Of course they should work together when analyzing, but it has been obvious in all those games that a goal was imminent simply due to the shape the game deteriorates into.
 
thfcsteff said:
I agree.
Personally, I think it highlights the issues of XG and other stat-based platforms versus eyes. Of course they should work together when analyzing, but it has been obvious in all those games that a goal was imminent simply due to the shape the game deteriorates into.
Click to expand...
Was it equally obvious that a goal was imminent in the games where we have seen out a one goal lead?

I'd accept that there is a risk, even that the risk can be higher compared to other ways of playing. This particularly given that we're not succeeding enough at absorbing that pressure and getting successful counter attacks.

But there's definitely a risk with the other approaches available to us too. Keeping possession against a team that presses has obvious risks. Pushing more players forward to try to increase our lead has obvious risks.

I think we still need to improve our chance creation (xG) in these conditions. If that's through keeping the ball more and pushing more players forward with more extended periods of possession or through counter attacks isn't the most important to me.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Totally agree with this. A team could have two or three 1 v 1’s and blast them wide or over the bar. Just because the keeper isn’t making saves doesn’t mean the other team isn’t dangerous. It’s a similar principle in cricket; pressure and great bowling leads to wickets. If you allow the other team to build pressure, dominate the midfield and the game in general and accumulate more possession and set pieces you are asking for trouble. Palace, Wolves and Fulham were all avoidable had we attacked them more.
Click to expand...
Or if we defended basic crosses better?
as I’ve said we’re not conceding world class goals
We’re scoring them though
And I’ve seen us put teams under pressure meant times and then not crack... Saudi Sportswashing Machine both times at home the last two seasons springs to mind
Look at pool at the weekend, United didn’t crumble under pressure as they did the defensive basics well
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Or if we defended basic crosses better?
as I’ve said we’re not conceding world class goals
We’re scoring them though
And I’ve seen us put teams under pressure meant times and then not crack... Saudi Sportswashing Machine both times at home the last two seasons springs to mind
Look at pool at the weekend, United didn’t crumble under pressure as they did the defensive basics well
Click to expand...
Teams will always concede from crosses and clearly it is a weakness of ours even more reason to be able to feel that the goal was coming. If we keep letting a team put crosses in, the statistics show we will concede. So the better option is not let the opposition just have wave after wave of crosses until they finally get one right.
 
Bishop said:
Teams will always concede from crosses and clearly it is a weakness of ours even more reason to be able to feel that the goal was coming. If we keep letting a team put crosses in, the statistics show we will concede. So the better option is not let the opposition just have wave after wave of crosses until they finally get one right.
Click to expand...
I agree so stop them crossing at source
But I’m also sure that crosses aren’t an affective way of scoring statistically
Arsenal hit 30 plus vs us and didn’t make us sweat. I mean it was a ridiculed comment from Arteta when he mentioned the crosses as a stat
We do need to be smarter when teams are pushing more against us. I’d argue that having more capable players will help as you see with teams like city. They can play there way out as everyone wants the ball and is comfortable with it
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I agree so stop them crossing at source
But I’m also sure that crosses aren’t an affective way of scoring statistically
Arsenal hit 30 plus vs us and didn’t make us sweat. I mean it was a ridiculed comment from Arteta when he mentioned the crosses as a stat
Click to expand...
Maybe the issue there is Goons aren’t really a team with players who take advantage from crosses?
 
braineclipse said:
Was it equally obvious that a goal was imminent in the games where we have seen out a one goal lead?

I'd accept that there is a risk, even that the risk can be higher compared to other ways of playing. This particularly given that we're not succeeding enough at absorbing that pressure and getting successful counter attacks.

But there's definitely a risk with the other approaches available to us too. Keeping possession against a team that presses has obvious risks. Pushing more players forward to try to increase our lead has obvious risks.

I think we still need to improve our chance creation (xG) in these conditions. If that's through keeping the ball more and pushing more players forward with more extended periods of possession or through counter attacks isn't the most important to me.
Click to expand...

Where is our best chance of victory? Given that we have two excellent strikers, and perhaps the league's most exciting creative player, I believe it lies with not sitting in our own half offering lesser sides the ball and looking to break on them. My view. But this IS Joseball thus I suppose I should not be shocked...
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Are Fulham?
Are pool?
Sheffield scored with a relatively small CF (he ain’t not big man)
Wolves? There not known for their corners
Click to expand...

That just shows that we aren't very good at dealing with them. Pressure after pressure and cross after cross after cross is mentally fatiguing as we know when played the high pressure game under Poch. Eventually you force the mistake from the defenders and a lot of the goals we've conceded have come in that manner.

We can't stop the wave of crosses because our default action after the opposition play past our first press is to retreat with all 10 outfield players into our own half. We then sit fairly compact flooding our box with bodies hoping to make an interception or block that leads to quick counter. Better players obviously make the system more effective but that is the system and while we have Mou clearly this is how we are going to be setup.

I'd argue that ultimately we need to change the CBs because Toby even in his heyday was vulnerable to crosses and hes just declined from that level. Dier is ok but often when those crosses are scored you see him under the ball or just beaten in the air. He isn't the aerially dominant CB this system apparently needs.

I suppose hopefully with Ndombele playing as a CM more frequently our quality with the ball improves and the waves of pressure aren't so overwhelming and unbreakable.
 
Bishop said:
That just shows that we aren't very good at dealing with them. Pressure after pressure and cross after cross after cross is mentally fatiguing as we know when played the high pressure game under Poch. Eventually you force the mistake from the defenders and a lot of the goals we've conceded have come in that manner.

We can't stop the wave of crosses because our default action after the opposition play past our first press is to retreat with all 10 outfield players into our own half. We then sit fairly compact flooding our box with bodies hoping to make an interception or block that leads to quick counter. Better players obviously make the system more effective but that is the system and while we have Mou clearly this is how we are going to be setup.

I'd argue that ultimately we need to change the CBs because Toby even in his heyday was vulnerable to crosses and hes just declined from that level. Dier is ok but often when those crosses are scored you see him under the ball or just beaten in the air. He isn't the aerially dominant CB this system apparently needs.

I suppose hopefully with Ndombele playing as a CM more frequently our quality with the ball improves and the waves of pressure aren't so overwhelming and unbreakable.
Click to expand...
I’d argue you stop crosses by not losing the ball as much
We concede the ball because we have “reliable” players who treat the ball like a grenade
The easiest way to stop crosses is stop the opposition having the ball. That doesn’t work unless players want the all
I also don’t believe we face a higher volume of crosses to other sides but I’d have to check that
What I’ll add is the better sides in the league generally don’t attack through crossing which is probably why the sissoko tactic works vs them. Against the weaker sides it’s a genuine tactic and something to address. And as I’ve said you address it by keeping the ball.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back