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Jose Mourinho - SACKED
- Thread starter mjc23
- Start date
thfcsteff
George Hunt
This...plus direct orders are not always necessary to effect complicity in an ideal. Often, by establishing a certain "fear" of NOT doing things a certain way, you can avoid having to actually say the words one after the other. I have absolutely no doubt that we are sometimes playing scared of making mistakes/cedeing possession in the act of actually trying to do something creative or special. We are now a side who are designed to not give up possession in certain areas of the pitch (which makes the fact we consistently seem to give up goals on balls swinging in from the left quite ironic). I think Kane is too smart to say much of anything other than taking responsibility, which I personally feel is perhaps shared at most...
Mourinho has to take some responsibility for sure, but I do not buy that such an intelligent man sets his team up to park the bus once we go 1-0 up and to be honest our performances haven’t even shown that - in all the games except Wolves we have had plenty of opportunities to score a second and third.
I also find it funny that it’s some of those who watched constant turgid displays usually far worse than this in our final year of Poch but defended him and claimed it wasnt his fault, he needs new players are now the ones claiming it’s all on the coach who has basically been using the same set of players save Hojberg and Reguilon. As always the truth lies somewhere inbetween, the players have been adapting to a more pragmatic approach but haven’t been totally getting it right about when to play it safe and when to attack - as highlighted in MOTD yesterday whenever our players received the ball we were instantly looking forward which led to more positive moves more frequently. I’m sure Mourinho has been drilling into them you can’t literally just sit back on a one goal lead in this day and age, and the players do have to step up and take some responsibility for this. But of course, as is always the way it is the coach that has to take ultimate responsibility....
Bishop
John Lacy
Poch gets a degree of leeway due to the season of no additions and the low numbers of incomings in the previous seasons. Of course that doesn't completely mitigate his responsibility, Poch was the one constantly selecting the gruesome midfield pairing of Sissoko and Winks along with a non performing Eriksen and a far from his best Dele. He did decide to change it up with the additions of GLC and Ndombele but it came too late and the slide had already happened.
Jose has very much had the opposite, he's had money to bring players in as well as the benefit of those last 2 quality players that joined in the latter days of Poch's regime. So understandably some might have less patience with him. My personal complaint has been he can do better with the players he has available to him, so the form and repetitive systemic issues the side have been demonstrating are down to him, just as the good form and some excellent performances this season have been as well.
Legohamster
Ian Walker
Issue is who do you bring in, I would say Dier has been the stand out defender and even he has had the odd brainfart.
Same with the Midfield, GLC always being injured narrows the option down - hopefully the increase fitness sees Ndombele playing more 90 minutes.
Its great saying players are not following instructions, but we dont have other players to bring in.
Didn't we start really badly last season?
So my opinion
- Yes, Jose has had investment partially because it appears he very clear with who/what he wants.
- That said, we bought 7 players (and you could argue this is Ndombele's first real season). PEH & Reguilon's immediate impact seemingly has made everyone forget that, this team will get better as players adapt, to judge on the first half of season where we are still in 4 competitions and come up with a complete negative is a bit OTT.
What do I think is happening?
- It seemingly is beyond people's understanding that we don't play the same way every game, Jose is not Poch/Klopp/Pep who will play the same way every game, he does believe in countering the opponent, this sometimes creates a negate game that isn't pretty (even if we play well), so even on a good run of form, you will have games that vary in "attractiveness"
- The side is not finished work, the defence is "ok" (better with PEH and a more defensive team mindset), midfield still lacks in a natural possession oriented player, front line is WC
- Jose from day one sees a lot of our problems in the mentality of the players, hence he is trying to teach how to defend as a team, and how to manage a game out, if you lead, if you can control the game, manage the risk.
I think (and see Kane's comments) the players believe more in themselves (perhaps sometimes to complacency), are much more comfortable trying to manage a game out and collectively still haven't got the balance right on when to be more ruthless, when to accept the lead, how to manage the game. But make no mistake, the bad results now are mostly draws.
Jose should be judged at the end of season
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
We had Sissoko playing in a very advanced position against Fulham. A position he just isn't capable of playing. We had Moura, Bale and Dele on the bench.
Changes don't just have to be personnel changes either. I'd always have put great faith in Jose from his Chelsea and Madrid days of being able to change a game through subs or tactical changes. He seemed incapable of doing that against three mediocre teams in Wolves, Palace and Fulham. Poch, with some justification, got pelters on here for his attitude to subs but he did often make tactical changes in games that swung momentum in our favour. Jose should have been able to do likewise in those games.
Legohamster
Ian Walker
That I agree on, I don't think his selections have been spot on - anytime Sissoko starts is wrong
I would like to see us using wingbacks from now on, I think given the players we have its our best formation
We still had the best chances against those teams except Wolves - if you can't take your chances, I am not sure that is on the manager.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
Sissoko can do a job if you put no offensive responsibility on his shoulders. I saw someone else say he's where attacks go to die and I'd agree with that.
We did have better chances for sure against Fulham but they all came first half aside from Sonny's off the post. My recollection of Palace is we didn't have much, particularly second half and against Wolves our last shot was in the 21st minute or something. But the common trend in all three games was that we got pinned back second half. And you could see it plainly before the inevitable equaliser came. Whether we had stacks of chances before that which we failed to convert doesn't matter. We were 1 up and under pressure with a habit of conceding in similar circumstances. That's when the manager has to take control and do something. And with Jose's knowledge of the game, track record and intelligence, it's why I'm stumped that he didn't.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Palace their keeper got MOTM
His key saves were after they score too
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
Ah fair point. Recall that now. He pulled off a couple of great stops to be fair including a great save from a Dier free kick. However, they were undeniably dominating the game second half and it felt for a while that an equaliser was coming.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Hugo didn’t make a save really though so I guess it’s what you class as dominating
Bishop
John Lacy
The goal was coming and came.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
I had a conversation with someone about this last night
...the only point I was making was that in the after match interviews when asked 'did you tell them....' if you think it thru to its logical conclusion he must of been telling the truth (when saying 'no'). 1. Because otherwise he'd be deflecting the blame on the whole team if he did tell them to retreat 2. He prompted the interviewer to ask his players...hed be asking the players to come out and lie for him. Now I know he thinks he's lord of the manor but I don't think that would wash across the whole team, he'd be on his way to losing the dressing room.Parking that point to one side, all of what you say in your post I agree with. You play in your coaches vision and I'd say Jose is a risk adverse , eliminate mistakes and hold on to what you have type of guy. That approach becomes unhealthy if any risk or mistake manifests itself as fear in the players, and you know that the manager is gonna be on you if it's you that's to blame. It's self fulfilling.
As you say, it doesn't have to be words, you get to know what your manager is about over a period of time, and consciously or subconsciously you are trying to please him, even if personally don't think it's the right thing to do. And in football terms that can be quite depressing considering the game should be about skill, expression, camaraderie.
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LincsSpur
Øyvind Leonhardsen
Agree with most of that but I can’t agree that Dier has been the stand out defender as he’s barely adequate imv
Toby slowing down now but still performs better than Dier who seems to me to have problems with his marking often losing players which has proven costly at times
With other defenders we have (Sanchez Aurier Davies Rodon etc) it shouldn’t be difficult to be a stand out defender for us
I think Rodon will be an astute buy though and should be learning his trade beside Toby
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Why was it coming ?
Territorial pressure and number of balls played in to dangerous goal scoring areas.
If you're just looking at saves made by the keeper then a lot of our low scoring wins this season were very fortunate indeed
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Conversely in those games were we making saves? And was the differentiatir the quality of our players over there’s?
I assume you mean Burnley and a West Brom and Brighton?
I'm using those games to highlight your argument that Lloris not making many saves v Palace meant the equalising goal wasn't coming, doesn't make sense