It Evens Itself Out Over A Season - The Ref's A ****

[NewYorkSpurs]

Did we though? We didn't lose because of the ref today, but we were the better side weren't we? They were just more clinical and pretty much scored each time they went forward. Basically similar to how we performed away to Fulham which was and still is slated so much by our own fans, yet when Utd do it to us "we were rocked"

But isn't finishing all that really matters? For all of our possession, we rarely looked threatening except for Ade's disallowed goal and a few runs into the box by Lennon. It's nice to control the ball, but when you can't finish, that's it. And yes, I'd say we got rocked. Man U didn't look like the weaker team to me. It almost seemed like they were toying with us. Sure, have all the possession you want, try to prod at our defense. When you least suspect it, and solely at our own discretion, we'll instantaneously turn the tide and stick a dagger in you.

 

[ArcspacE]

Can someone please explain the following

Chelsea game - Cole's blatant handball prior to their goal. A clear advantage is gained. Ref does fuk all. They score

Utd game - Ade's handball. An advantage is gained. Ref blows.



I remember many on here said Webb got it spot on vs. Chelsea at the time. How?

 

[Kingdawson]

Can someone please explain the following

Chelsea game - Cole's blatant handball prior to their goal. A clear advantage is gained. Ref does fuk all. They score

Utd game - Ade's handball. An advantage is gained. Ref blows.



I remember many on here said Webb got it spot on vs. Chelsea at the time. How?

I was one of the main ones that said Webb got that right but a few games later there was an incident in a game where Webb was refereeing ( think it was Chelsea vs City or Chelsea vs united) where the EXACT same thing happened and Webb blew for handball. As soon as I saw that I posted on here that I was foolish to try and defend that imbecile.

 

[Kingdawson]

One thing though, it would be interesting to see if there were any posters who called handball for Cole but claim Ade's should have stood.

 

[indianspur]

you're kidding, right ? goals change games.

at worst we'd probablt have got a draw if the goal had stood

yiddo was right, we would have lost anyway. It was Utd, we havent beaten them for over 10 years, even when we have decent leads against them we surrender and allow them to win

until Fergie fcuks off i dont see much changing

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

But isn't finishing all that really matters? For all of our possession, we rarely looked threatening except for Ade's disallowed goal and a few runs into the box by Lennon. It's nice to control the ball, but when you can't finish, that's it. And yes, I'd say we got rocked. Man U didn't look like the weaker team to me. It almost seemed like they were toying with us. Sure, have all the possession you want, try to prod at our defense. When you least suspect it, and solely at our own discretion, we'll instantaneously turn the tide and stick a dagger in you.

I disagree, I don't think utd felt comfortable at all for the first 60 mins. Look up Harry's comments on the game, I think he gets it spot on.

 

[SpursLodge]

I think if Ades goal had stood it would have been a different game, we bossed the first half had a goal dissalowed and suddenly found ourselves 1 down, we were always going to lose from there.

If the goal is allowed then we've bossed the first half and got the goal we deserved, very different mind set from then on.

We can't say that the ref handed them the game today but to say it was nothing to do with him is just as wrong.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Well, of the decisions that have gone our way;

Walker handball in the area against Fulham
Adebayor hand-ball in the area against Saudi Sportswashing Machine (home)
Bale penalty against Arsenal
Cahill's harsh red card for Bolton


That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's a lot more. So it's not all karmic persecution.

I agree that the Walker handball decision was a big (wrong) one that gained us 2 points. Although even with that one - just before it happened we were denied what looked like a penalty as somebody (I think Parker) was barged over from behind as he was running into their penalty area with the ball.

The Adebayor hand-ball in the area against Saudi Sportswashing Machine looked completely accidental as he was sliding on. Those are rarely given as penalties.

The Bale penalty against Arsenal was 100% a penalty, even if we ignore Gibbs trying to pull Bale back as he was running for the ball, Gibbs then slid in and connected with both of Bale's feet and not the ball. Gibbs actually should've been sent off for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity (Bale was one on one with the keeper)

The Cahill red card was very harsh. Although I would argue that the result would've been the same in this game anyway as we were already well on top of Bolton at that stage.

I think we've been on the wrong end of bad decisions many more times than we've been on the right end of them. Still apparently "it always evens itself out over the season" so I'm looking forward to our outragous luck with decisions against Everton and Chelsea turning 0 or 1 point into 3 in those games!

 

[SpursLodge]

the problem with it evening itself out is that we get stiffed against Utd and then get a decision against Bolton. even though the bad decisions maybe even the end result is not.

 

[1882]

Did we though? We didn't lose because of the ref today, but we were the better side weren't we? They were just more clinical and pretty much scored each time they went forward. Basically similar to how we performed away to Fulham which was and still is slated so much by our own fans, yet when Utd do it to us "we were rocked"

Ah yes, the 'did we deserve it' question/

My problem with this is; when Utd play well, they win... when they play average (at best) the can still come away with the win and get lauded for 'winning when you're not playing well is the mark of ****ing Champions'

they GET the 50-50 decisions... yes, Ade probably DID handball it, but whe it 'goes for you' it GOES FOR YOU, and those decisions go your way... whether you fudgeign deserve it or not! (don't even get me started on Mendes, i'll get fudging banned again!)

I thought Harry was supposed to be a 'lucky manager'... maybe the Curse of Spurs overrides any previous manager luck theory!

AS I SAID WHEN STAMPING MY FEET LIKE A SPOILT 2-YEAR-OLD LAST WEEKEND...
"IT'S JUST NOT FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIR........ C U N T S!"

 

[paxtonwolf]

Have I missed somebody's post or Did I dream it, but...
Didnt Shawcross handle the ball on the line in the Stoke game, but we were told it has to be intentional handball and thats why we didnt get the penalty that day.

For me, each incident was the same, if its handball yesterday it was handball at Stoke or vice-versa. Or is sit one rule for one team and one for Spurs, that was my gripe last night

 

[1882]

One thing though, it would be interesting to see if there were any posters who called handball for Cole but claim Ade's should have stood.

and THAT'S the point... either they both stand, or they're both disallowed...
if they're BOTH disallowed, then we beat Chelsea 1-0 and lose to Man Utd... 3 points from two games, which I can take...
if they're both given, we draw to Chelsea (which we did) and go 1-0 up against Man Utd... the rest is open to conjecture... maybe we lose, but we're where we were at the start...

as it was, we lose out on BOTH decisions, and THAT'S what fudging stinks!

 

[Jurgen the German]

you're kidding, right ? goals change games.

at worst we'd probablt have got a draw if the goal had stood

I don't know if we would have won or even drew the game, but you are right, goals do change games. It wasn't like it was 2-0 or 3-0 and the goal was chalked off, it was 0-0. Simply no way of knowing how it would have affected the game, but it's wrong to dismiss it and say we would have lost anyway.

 

[kanoute16]

Not this brick again.

Nice contribution as always - so intelligent!

The question is when are we going to start making sure that these awful inconsistent decisions do not affect our results?

In all the games mentioned we had chances to put the games away and did not take them.

 

[Offtowembley]

Every game we lose there is always someone who wants to blame the ref](*,)

The problem is that even when we have won games I still think the referees have been poor at best , spoiling the game for me and how I would like an even playing field , I knew exactly what we were going to get from Atkinson , the same as he has always given us and like so many more .. nothing !!! Michael Oliver for me , the ref that done the Liverpool game, wasn't influenced by the Kop , booked Bale for diving and gave fair decisions all the way through , best ref I have seen in the premiership

 

[Rorschach]

Souness made the point (and I hope I'm not repeating if already mentioned) that that handball would not have been given as a penalty so shouldn't have been given as a free out. That for me sums it up. The goal should have stood.

 

[DubaiSpur]

I agree that the Walker handball decision was a big (wrong) one that gained us 2 points. Although even with that one - just before it happened we were denied what looked like a penalty as somebody (I think Parker) was barged over from behind as he was running into their penalty area with the ball.

The Adebayor hand-ball in the area against Saudi Sportswashing Machine looked completely accidental as he was sliding on. Those are rarely given as penalties.

The Bale penalty against Arsenal was 100% a penalty, even if we ignore Gibbs trying to pull Bale back as he was running for the ball, Gibbs then slid in and connected with both of Bale's feet and not the ball. Gibbs actually should've been sent off for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity (Bale was one on one with the keeper)

The Cahill red card was very harsh. Although I would argue that the result would've been the same in this game anyway as we were already well on top of Bolton at that stage.

I think we've been on the wrong end of bad decisions many more times than we've been on the right end of them. Still apparently "it always evens itself out over the season" so I'm looking forward to our outragous luck with decisions against Everton and Chelsea turning 0 or 1 point into 3 in those games!

It is sort of telling that during our good runs, we had quite a few decisions against us, but they weren't really fussed over (except for the Stoke game). However, when we lose, or are in bad rut of form, then these choices become magnified tenfold, because we seek reasons for our losses that shouldn't really be reasons.

I agree with you, partly; it does seem like we get more decisions against us. I'd put it down to being in that limbo between also-rans and the big-boys. We're not quite at the level of United or Arsenal just yet, but we're not down at the level of Everton, Villa and the like as well. Therefore, we don't get the benefit of the doubt like the big boys do, but we also don't get the benefit of sympathy, like the clubs below us do. So we're stuck.

However, we shouldn't let these things decide our final position in the table. We shouldn't let them justify our poor peformances or below-average results. Look at Chelsea, in the season we finished fourth; they were scoring bucketloads, every game. 5-0, 6-0, 7-0.....they scored so many and performed so well that a few bad calls against them here and there (Terry's 'handball' against us in the 2-1, for example) didn't matter; they went on to win the double anyway. We should aim to attain that level of performance, and not just content ourselves with the idea that if decisions had gone our way we'd be top. Decisions are inherently uncontrollable- they are decided by outside factors, and we can't change that to a great degree. Not for a while, anyway. What we can directly affect is our own performances, and those need to be the focus of the team, the manager and the fans; our performances. Not the dodgy decisions that do or do not go our way.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

It's the tough games you need decisions to be correct (we're not talking about giving dodgy decisions to us here, just correct calls!). The Emirates Marketing Project non sendings off cost us a win at city and a whole load of belief, not sending off Gibbs for the pen at arsenal changed the game as well, I know we subsequently didn't deserve brick from the game but 2-0 up against 10 men? The adebayor handball this week, I'm not sure as it clearly hit his hand but seeing as similar incidents have been given against us already this season (cole for Chelsea in a game we drew) I think we could have expected an 'evening' out.

I'm not sure how any of the above can be equated to sending off Cahill at home to Bolton when we're already leading?!?

It's just fact we've been majorly screwed over by dodgy reffing this season, to try and argue otherwise just tinkles people off (I haven't even mentioned stole or wolves at home there another 5 points lost directly from refs bad calls).

 

[DubaiSpur]

It's the tough games you need decisions to be correct (we're not talking about giving dodgy decisions to us here, just correct calls!). The Emirates Marketing Project non sendings off cost us a win at city and a whole load of belief, not sending off Gibbs for the pen at arsenal changed the game as well, I know we subsequently didn't deserve brick from the game but 2-0 up against 10 men? The adebayor handball this week, I'm not sure as it clearly hit his hand but seeing as similar incidents have been given against us already this season (cole for Chelsea in a game we drew) I think we could have expected an 'evening' out.

I'm not sure how any of the above can be equated to sending off Cahill at home to Bolton when we're already leading?!?

It's just fact we've been majorly screwed over by dodgy reffing this season, to try and argue otherwise just tinkles people off (I haven't even mentioned stole or wolves at home there another 5 points lost directly from refs bad calls).

You don't know what would happen. If Cahill hadn't been sent off, he might have scored an equalizer at a corner, which would lead to Bolton pressing for the winner, which they then might have gotten. Similarly, if Walker's handball had been noticed, we would have given away a penalty which Fulham would probably have scored, to make it 2-2. So likely no Jermain Defoe goal in the last minute, and a totally different effect on morale than what our actual win had. You can't just wish for the right decision to be made when it suits us. now, credit to you if you came out after the Fulham game and demanded that Harry criticise the referee for missing Walker's blatant handball. But I suspect you didn't. Which isn't a bad thing at all; none of us did. But then expecting decisions to be right when they suit us and wrong when they don't suit us is a bit hypocritical, in my opinion, and we're better than that.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

That's just ridiculous mate, I don't think even you believe what you've just written there.

We were 1-0 up after 20 mins against Bolton and cruising, Bolton have shown no signs all season that they were capable of getting back in to that game, it wasn't even a stand out incorrect decision, harsh yes, wrong debatable.

The walker handball came minutes after Parker was taken out for a clear pen that wasn't given! You can just as easily say had that been given walkers handball wouldn't have occurred!

Ofcourse you can say any eventualities can happen in football but some are more likely than others. Cahill going on to get an equalizer or winner against us is not the same likelihood as us going on to win at city from 2-2 had lescott and Mario been correctly sent off, see my prev message for all the other wrong decisions occurring in borderline matches. That was the whole point, decisions favoring us have been few but when they have they've been inconsequential, the numerous poor decisions against us have been costly.