Improvements necessary for next season

[glasgowspur]

Poch needs to improve too.

first 10 games he was clueless. until dier and alli snapped into place.
last 5 games too.

lesser teams have been able to put up a better fight with less quality, its effective variations in the lineup, formation and a plan B that Poch needs. i know that theres a gulf of class between the bench and the first eleven, but its not that bad.

He does need to improve. But to expect a teenager playing in the PL for the first time and a youngster playing a new position to click straight away is madness. They needed time and he gave them it.
How many games would you have given them before you thought it's not working and changed it?
Poch has patience and sees a longer game.

 

[Pirate55]

You need to be better researched my friend.... In none of those games you mention did the opposition score in the last ten minutes.... Arsenal equalised in the 77th minute at their place and the 76th minute at our place. WBA equalised in the 73rd minute in the game at WHL.

Lets make it last 20 minutes then if it will make you feel happier. The underlying point remains valid. We would be the 70 minute champions instead.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Lets make it last 20 minutes then if it will make you feel happier. The underlying point remains valid. We would be the 70 minute champions instead.

Again.... there would be games where we dropped points and games where we gained them. Yes using 70 minutes would bring Arsenal (x2) and WBA into the mix, but equally we turned a loss into a win against Swansea at WHL and also draws into a win against Man Utd at home and Palace away.

A team that lacked mental strength would fail to turn around games in which they were behind. We picked up lots of points from games in which we went behind. I agree that we didn't protect leads well enough, but I don''t think it was anything to do with mental strength. I see it as tacticial naivety, along with us not really having a defensive midfield option to use off of the bench to help us shut up shop.

For most of last season we were forced to use players like Mason, Carroll, Onomah, Son, Chadli and N'jie from the bench as our players tired, they are all players that you would probably put on when trying to turn a game round as opposed to when trying to close out a game. Mason works hard and can tackle, but isn't at all positionally disciplined, Carroll moves the ball well but has no defensive presence and the other 4 do their work much further up the pitch.

Now imagine if when 2-1 up against Arsenal with 20 minutes to go you could withdraw an attacking player (Eriksen for example) and put on Wanyama?.... Suddenly the space in front of our defence is controlled by Dier, Dembele AND Wanyama... Good luck in trying to create something by getting through those three.

You call it a lack of 'mental stength'. I say it is just a general lack of 'stength in the squad'. Something that I would hope Pochettino puts right this summer with the help of Levy (Wanyama please Mr Chairman)

 

[Pirate55]

Again.... there would be games where we dropped points and games where we gained them. Yes using 70 minutes would bring Arsenal (x2) and WBA into the mix, but equally we turned a loss into a win against Swansea at WHL and also draws into a win against Man Utd at home and Palace away.

A team that lacked mental strength would fail to turn around games in which they were behind. We picked up lots of points from games in which we went behind. I agree that we didn't protect leads well enough, but I don''t think it was anything to do with mental strength, I see it as tacticial naivety, along with us not really having a defensive midfield option to use off of the bench to help us shut up shop.

I agree with you that better options off the bench would help. However, if games ended at 70 minutes, we could possibly be Champions now.

Even giving you Alli's goal against Man United which was scored in the 70th minute, (and therefore right on the cusp of the cut off point),I calculate that we would be better off by 5 points if we ignored this period. Crucially though, we let Leicester score against us at home in 83rd minute (Huth) and away in the 82nd minute (Mahrez). This cost us three points and gained Leicester three points. Arsenal scored against us at home on 76 minutes (Sanchez) and at the Emirates on 77 minutes (Gibbs). That would have given us an extra four points and them two points less.

It is clear to me at least we need to tighten up in the last 20 minute of games. This is partly down to mental and physical strength, partly down to tactics, partly down to lack to quality on the bench. However, what we lack is that key ingredient, a winning mentality when it really counts in the last crucial period of games. We don't often enough (and only against City away) score critical goals in this period and turn the draws into wins. This is what we need to rectify.

We need a winning mentality. At present, we don't have it. At every juncture this season, when there is a game where the result is critical (Leicester home and away) Arsenal (home and away), Chelsea (away), Southampton (home) and Saudi Sportswashing Machine (away) we have simply failed to deliver on the pitch. Call it sexy if you like but we really do need to change this asap.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I agree with you that better options off the bench would help. However, if games ended at 70 minutes, we could possibly be Champions now.

Even giving you Alli's goal against Man United which was scored in the 70th minute, (and therefore right on the cusp of the cut off point),I calculate that we would be better off by 5 points if we ignored this period. Crucially though, we let Leicester score against us at home in 83rd minute (Huth) and away in the 82nd minute (Mahrez). This cost us three points and gained Leicester three points. Arsenal scored against us at home on 76 minutes (Sanchez) and at the Emirates on 77 minutes (Gibbs). That would have given us an extra four points and them two points less.

It is clear to me at least we need to tighten up in the last 20 minute of games. This is partly down to mental and physical strength, partly down to tactics, partly down to lack to quality on the bench. However, what we lack is that key ingredient, a winning mentality when it really counts in the last crucial period of games. We don't often enough (and only against City away) score critical goals in this period and turn the draws into wins. This is what we need to rectify.

We need a winning mentality. At present, we don't have it. At every juncture this season, when there is a game where the result is critical (Leicester home and away) Arsenal (home and away), Chelsea (away), Southampton (home) and Saudi Sportswashing Machine (away) we have simply failed to deliver on the pitch. Call it sexy if you like but we really do need to change this asap.

Again, I disagree. Why is it 'mental strength'? I would agree that you could question our mental strength if we went on a long run of defeats (2 in a row was our longest run) or we failed to turn around games in which we went behind (we turned around as many games as just about anyone), or if we got several pastings (we only actually got a single pasting last season - which occurred in the very last game). We didn't lose a single other game in the league by more than a goal. I doubt there was another club out there with a record as good as us here. Not just at City away did we score late goals to convert draws into wins - but also Watford away and Sunderland away. We also came back from losing positions at Anfield and Goodison - neither of which are traditionally easy places to recover from being behind. I would argue that the reason we didn't do this more often was due to the lack of options (or more pertinently the lack of top class options) off of the bench. In addition I think in many cases our team doesn't want to accept a single point and go all out for the win, again this doesn't evidence a lack of mental strength. Against both Southampton and Saudi Sportswashing Machine in the last two games we could've (and perhaps should've?) played for a point but didn't do so on either occasion. That's not 'mental strength' it's tactical naivety or perhaps confidence from our manager that we are better than the opposition and should always beat them? Or perhaps just an admission that we are very light on defensive minded midfield players and therefore don't currently have the personnel to play a very defensive game?

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

@Gazzasrightboot - Just as a follow on, and to emphasize that the media and assorted pundits are saying very different things now to what they were a month ago....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...s-have-landed--and-they-are-ready-to-rumble/?





So, as I said, a) fudge 'em, and b) we haven't proved anything yet, at least in their eyes.

I don't think that proves anything other than they are using the last 4 games of the season to prove a point disregarding the rest of the season. The same things they were saying before those 4 games are still true even if they are changing their words. @Finney Is Back 's point of "I just think 2 defeats in rounds 37 and 38 of the PL have led to conclusions that don't necessarily match the reality." sums it up very well.

We have proved that we are a team that is capable of being in contention for the title. We have proved that our first XI is a match for anyone. We have also proved that when the title was lost we sulked and let second place out of our grasp. At other stages of the season where we had a negative result, we pretty much turned things around and improved performances.

I agree with you on point a. fudge them indeed. In the ass.

 

[afsoc4life]

Mental improvements and players who have played at a bigger club and achieved something to ginger up the squad's mentality.

 

[Pirate55]

Again, I disagree. Why is it 'mental strength'? I would agree that you could question our mental strength if we went on a long run of defeats (2 in a row was our longest run) or we failed to turn around games in which we went behind (we turned around as many games as just about anyone), or if we got several pastings (we only actually got a single pasting last season - which occurred in the very last game). We didn't lose a single other game in the league by more than a goal. I doubt there was another club out there with a record as good as us here. Not just at City away did we score late goals to convert draws into wins - but also Watford away and Sunderland away. We also came back from losing positions at Anfield and Goodison - neither of which are traditionally easy places to recover from being behind. I would argue that the reason we didn't do this more often was due to the lack of options (or more pertinently the lack of top class options) off of the bench. In addition I think in many cases our team doesn't want to accept a single point and go all out for the win, again this doesn't evidence a lack of mental strength. Against both Southampton and Saudi Sportswashing Machine in the last two games we could've (and perhaps should've?) played for a point but didn't do so on either occasion. That's not 'mental strength' it's tactical naivety or perhaps confidence from our manager that we are better than the opposition and should always beat them? Or perhaps just an admission that we are very light on defensive minded midfield players and therefore don't currently have the personnel to play a very defensive game?

I see we are not going to agree on this, so lets just agree to disagree. For me, it happens in too many big, important games for it to be disregarded.

I do agree with Afsoc4life above that we need players to ginger up the squad's mentality. I am not sure Wanyama is that person. Schneiderlin before he accepted Man U's buck, might have done the job.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I see we are not going to agree on this, so lets just agree to disagree. For me, it happens in too many big, important games for it to be disregarded.

I do agree with Afsoc4life above that we need players to ginger up the squad's mentality. I am not sure Wanyama is that person. Schneiderlin before he accepted Man U's buck, might have done the job.

Even though Man Utd went backwards since signing him and Southampton have improved since losing him? Has he improved Man Utd's mentality?

 

[90291Spur]

Even though Man Utd went backwards since signing him and Southampton have improved since losing him? Has he improved Man Utd's mentality?

Perhaps Schneiderlin was not responsible for the mentality of the team. Perhaps that responsibility lay with the head coach. I think that's how it usually works.

 

[thfcsteff]

Great discussion thread Pirate, and when I have time over the weekend I look forward to getting involved. Nice one!

While I think all of us are delighted with third place and a guaranteed place in next seasons Champions League, there is undoubtedly still significant room for improvement if we are to continue our upward trend. Here are some areas I believe we need to address (in no particular order):

1. Last 10 minutes of games. If only we had had a better end to games we would now be Champions. Indeed, if games had ended after 80 minutes, I calculate we would now be Champions. Points we lost in the last 10 minutes include Leicester (h) -1, Leicester (a) -2, Arsenal (h) -2, Arsenal (a) -2, WBA (h) -2, Chelsea (a) -2, Stoke (h) -2. Those games alone cost us 13 points. Only (iirc) Watford (a) and Emirates Marketing Project (a) did we turn draws into wins in that period (so +4) Overall -9 points. However it also gave Leicester an extra 3 points. So we are the "80 minute" Champions. We need to close off games better next season and also score winning goals more often in that crucial period.

2. Conversion of chances into goals. I believe we created the highest number of chances of any team in the EPL. However, we lost out to Emirates Marketing Project on the highest goals scored. The number of shots we had which were inaccurate was huge. I recall so many going well over the bar or well wide. We really need to improve our shooting accuracy next season.

3. Free Kicks Eriksen was poor with his free kicks this season. I think he only scored two all year and that was in the same game (against Swansea away). He didn't look particularly confident when taking them and I certainly had no real feeling that he was going to convert any. Most were pretty poor efforts in reality. This is a surprise from a guy who has a reputation for being one of Europe's best free kick takers. He really needs to improve on this next season

4. Corners. Our poor corners have been a bugbear of mine for some time. The number of times we hit the first man is totally unacceptable. Why we don't position someone in front of their first man so that he can flick it on if it goes short is totally beyond my comprehension as it such an easy remedy. We have strong aerial power in Toby, Jan, Harry and Erik and we really need to make more of corners next season. Similarly, we need to concentrate more on defensive corners as we conceded some key goals from these this season (Chelsea first goal), WBA (equaliser) and Leicester (winner) immediately spring to mind. These need to be cut out next season.

5.Substitutions. I think Poch's substitutions have been poor this year. His reading of the game in play doesnt seem terribly cute to me and he often makes the wrong subs at the wrong time. I know this is a subjective view and everyone can have different opinions on this, but generally Poch leaves his first sub until after 60 minutes no matter how the game is going and often gives other subs far too little time to have any meaningful impact. Admittedly options from the bench have been a limiting factor (and one that might have been addressed in January) but I also think he needs to try and improve his reading of a game while it is going on.

6. Players Attitudes. Can players please do less of "talking the talk" and more of "walking the walk". Posting pictures of lions and (Verts and others) saying how much the players know how important derbies are to fans and how important it is to win derbies for bragging rights. Unfortunately, they let us down badly in key games, notably Arsenal (home and away), Chelsea (away) West Ham (away) - to say nothing of that last game debacle against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Shameful and they turned pride into shame far too easily - this must improve next season.

7. Supporters. While our away support has been magnificent (as usual) or home support has left a lot to be desired on occasions. Lets have some new and better songs and chants next season and leave out the gratuitous goading of other fans (at least until after we have won the game!). It is unnecessary and unneeded and often gets opponents to raise their games. We could take a leaf out of Leicester's home support. Lets all try and improve on that next season and get behind the team at all times.

8. Transfers. As well as we have done this season, we need some quality players in key areas to ensure that there is both adequate competition for places and there is no drop off in quality when we need to bring in squad players. Some must go to make room, but in my opinion, we need another quality CF, AM, and DM at the very least if we are to make a fist of competing on all fronts again next season with all the challenges of the CL not allowing any room for experiments.

9. Results against our key rivals. Our results against those around us this season has not been good enough. Leicester (d and l), Arsenal (d and d), Emirates Marketing Project (w and w), Chelsea (d and d), Man Utd (l and w). Only Emirates Marketing Project where we were exceptional, did the results properly reflect the way the games went. We really need to improve on this next season. Thank GHod, Saudi Sportswashing Machine are no longer a problem!!!!

10. Winning mentality. Last, but certainly not least, is the need for us to develop a winning mentality. Going back to point 1, we need to play right up to the final whistle and make sure next season we turn draws into wins in the final 10 minutes next season. I don't know if this is a fitness or mentality thing, but it certainly needs to be addressed if we are to be successful. My one concern on this issue is whether Poch is inspiring or experienced enough. He hasn't won anything as a manager and it is not yet proven whether he has that final missing ingredient? Is he a winning manager? As Napoleon said, give me lucky generals every time. We seem to have continued to be sexy under Poch even though so many other aspects of our game have improved. Every time we could have gone top (even for a few hours) we blew it. Every time we could have put pressure on Leicester, we blew it. We needed a win at Chelsea and even at 2 goals up, we blew it. We only needed a draw to finish second and above Arsenal against an already relegated Saudi Sportswashing Machine, who only had ten men for most to the second half, and we blew it. Next season we really need not to blow it!!!!

COYS.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Perhaps Schneiderlin was not responsible for the mentality of the team. Perhaps that responsibility lay with the head coach. I think that's how it usually works.

My point was made in response to Pirate's suggestion that Schneilderlin would be a player to improve our mentality. The fact that Man Utd went backwards after he arrived would suggest that he didn't improve Man Utd's mentality? Or are Man Utd's losses nothing to do with mentality with only Spurs' defeats being able to be put down to mentality? You make a point that the responsibility for a team's mentality lies with the manager, I would tend to agree. It is clear to me that our manager wants us to win every game and sets us up to do so. We commit men forward and look for the win right from the start of games. In no game last year in the league was it considered acceptable for us to lose, in no game last year in the league did we play for a draw.

The only thing we lack is good options off of the bench. Currently we don't have ones that enable us to maintain our solidity, let alone ones who could make us even more solid. Just about every player that we have on the bench is inferior to the first choice player, but worse than that, there are a number of players in our first team have no natural replacement on the bench at all and that makes it hard to make changes that don't affect our rhythm and effectiveness as a team. Our pressing style of play results in us being ahead in many games. However it is natural that we will not be able to continue with the same intensity for the entire match. We currently don't have any options to protect what we have as we start to run out of steam. Last season we could not replace a tiring Dier/Dembele with a player of a similar skill set, nor could we really shut up shop by adding an additional one at the expense of one of our attacking players. I'm sure it is a deficiency that Pochettino will address this summer, either via the transfer market or by working with some of the young players already at the club (perhaps Bentaleb, Ball or Winks)

 

[90291Spur]

My point was made in response to Pirate's suggestion that Schneilderlin would be a player to improve our mentality. The fact that Man Utd went backwards after he arrived would suggest that he didn't improve Man Utd's mentality? Or are Man Utd's losses nothing to do with mentality with only Spurs' defeats being able to be put down to mentality? You make a point that the responsibility for a team's mentality lies with the manager, I would tend to agree. It is clear to me that our manager wants us to win every game and sets us up to do so. We commit men forward and look for the win right from the start of games. In no game last year in the league was it considered acceptable for us to lose, in no game last year in the league did we play for a draw.

The only thing we lack is good options off of the bench. Currently we don't have ones that enable us to maintain our solidity, let alone ones who could make us even more solid. Just about every player that we have on the bench is inferior to the first choice player, but worse than that, there are a number of players in our first team have no natural replacement on the bench at all and that makes it hard to make changes that don't affect our rhythm and effectiveness as a team. Our pressing style of play results in us being ahead in many games. However it is natural that we will not be able to continue with the same intensity for the entire match. We currently don't have any options to protect what we have as we start to run out of steam. Last season we could not replace a tiring Dier/Dembele with a player of a similar skill set, nor could we really shut up shop by adding an additional one at the expense of one of our attacking players. I'm sure it is a deficiency that Pochettino will address this summer, either via the transfer market or by working with some of the young players already at the club (perhaps Bentaleb, Ball or Winks)

Finney, you make a lot of spot on points. Perhaps we are in a similar (not identical) situation to the year when we were 'given' Saha and Nelsen. What Poch can get in, or how he can improve what he has, will be key in us kicking on from last season. Hopefully he will be trusted and be able to deliver. But Ghod, I love this team and this club. Especially as 32 years ago today I was on my teenage way to Wemberly to see us win the FA Cup for the second year in a row.